My goal is to achieve 200whp+ out of a B16A2 all motor. You tell me what you think of the set-up I have planned, what you would change, add/subtract, etc... My goal is to just have fun street car and break 12's at the track. The car in question is a 99 Si.

As far as weight reduction goes, from rear seat back is completly stripped, no p/s (manual rack conversion), no a/c, no cruise, washer bottle motor & assembly gone, no passenger seat. I am probably eventually strip the carpet, sound deadening and do FAL back half.

For tranny I just plan on ACT XTSS, ProLite, E/S bushings, Quaife and DSS stage 1's (after mine brake knock on wood) and 22x8x13's on Lenso's.

As far as the motor goes I am thinking basic block work (new bearings, thrust washers seals, oil pump, water pump, timing belt) you know the expected stuff, polished and balenced crank, GE 85mm sleeves, Crower rods, Arias 85mm 12.1:1 pistons balenced and blueprinted, Cometic 85mm head gasket. As far as the head goes I was thinking stock size valves (maybe flat faced for a little bump), springs, retainers and some portflow work obvious, Skunk2 stage 2 cams and gears. Are 3's gonna be worth is with about 12.5:1 compression (flat faced valves & cometic is a little thinner then stock @ .025 vs. .029) and a portflow head or are radical portwork and sky high comp needed to justify getting them?

Fuel set-up I am thinking Walboro 190lph high pressure, 370's (440's needed?), and a B&M command flow. All tuned with Hondata s200.

Bolt-on's are pretty much done, Intake, KMS throttlebody, Skunk2 manifold, JDM ITR 4-1 (hopes of Hytech someday), Carsound 94006 (gutted), Skunk2 exhaust, Unorthodox Racing Ultra R crank & alt pulley, as far as ignition I am just gonna run factory plugs and wires unless someone tells me I need something else which I don't believe I do. Place Racing & E/S motor mounts and this is pretty much the jist of it except for a few little things here and there.

My main question of the entire set-up is this. Can you spot face the PR3 head to 85mm? Can someone like Portflow do this while doing your standard work? Is it a key aspect when overboring a motor? I am getting mixed signals about the 85mm over bore. I know of some people running up to 86mm on a B16. Arias sells off the shelf 85mm pistons, yet some say to not go over 84mm. I am not planning on running any type of force induction at all so I am kinda stumped on this.

What are everyones thoughts. Sorry for the long post, but I have researching these questions for a while now. I appreciate greatly any help provided. Thanks I think that is everything.

 

if i were you i wouldnt waste the money on polishing or messing with the crank, or porting/polishing the head, for that semi mild setup, the headwork wont do you the justice the money ytou paid for it says it should. dont balance or blueprint the block

you do mean breaking into 12's right? u dont expect high 11's is what im asking correct?


u also dont need new axles, stocks are fine.
i would throw an ITR or GSR crank in there and get some custom rods, like a diy stroker.youll be fine using stock valves, dont wate money on aftermarkets
dont even need 370s, im sure 310s would be fine, but 370s incase u needed them, and not even outrageous allmotor setups utilize 440s, normally so def. not those.
dont waste the money on the pulleys, they wont do anything
85 is a good bore, but you dont need to open up the head to accomodate it.

 

Balancing the reciprocating assembly is a good idea if you plan on revving, cheap insurance. Polishing the crank is like $20 at my local machine shop, so worth it IMO. Portflow can open up the combustion chambers for an 85mm bore, he did it for my 84mm bore. I have heard mixed reviews about opening the combustion chambers, it is not absolutely necessary, and you will lose a little compression.
Stay away from lightened after market crank pulleys, they have been known to cause premature bearing failures-T-Bone or MistaBone (I can't remember which one) posted some pics of some torn up bearings that resulted from an after market crank pulley.
Overall sounds like a good plan. Go with the 440's, since you are going to be running Hondata, you can always take away fuel.
You might want to work on the chassis to get your 60' times down-perhaps some drag launch springs. Good luck

 

440s are overkill

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridvteceg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if i were you i wouldnt waste the money on polishing or messing with the crank, or porting/polishing the head, for that semi mild setup, the headwork wont do you the justice the money ytou paid for it says it should. dont balance or blueprint the block</TD></TR></TABLE>

- The crank work is gonna be like $100
- Not P&P the head I can understand, just wasn't sure how well a facotr B16 head would flow for N/A before you would see gains from head work.
- Any reason why I shouldn't balence or blueprint the motor?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you do mean breaking into 12's right? u dont expect high 11's is what im asking correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

- Yes. Not sure how to be any clearer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u also dont need new axles, stocks are fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

- Yes. I know this. I indicated that I would maybe after my stock ones broke

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not even outrageous allmotor setups utilize 440s, normally so def. not those.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Umm just about every Toda C/D or SKUNK2 stage 3 person I know uses 440's. I mean and these are only 220-240whp N/A set-ups which isn't exactly wild by today's standards.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dont waste the money on the pulleys, they wont do anything</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well that is your opinion. I have already "wasted" my money on them. I have had them for 1 1/2 years now. They are the ultra R ones that only spin the alt. Throttle responce is retarded. I droped from a 8lb 6oz crank pulley/alt pulley combo to an 11oz crank pulley/alt pulley combo. I am very pleased not to mention 6-8whp all the way across from 2,500 rpm - 8,200rpm. They got my vote.

So if I shouldn't open up the combustion chamber what are the pros and cons of this then?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard mixed reviews about opening the combustion chambers, it is not absolutely necessary, and you will lose a little compression.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you thoughts on it and what made you decide to do it?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might want to work on the chassis to get your 60' times down-perhaps some drag launch springs. Good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah plan on Skunk2 drag launch and Koni yellow's or maybe some Koni 3012's if the wait isn't rediculous.

Thanks for the responces guys.

 

save your money and forget the sleeves.
get forged rods, and pistons 12:1 comp.
get springs, retainers, and cams all from the same company...ie skunk, JUN, toda etc...
id go with skunk2 stage 2s/3s and their components since they are priced competitively unlike the JDM companies.

port the b16a head, use oversized valves and do not mill the head.
get yourself an ITR intake manifold, port it.
port your jdm 4-1, modify the merge collector.
get an ericks t.b. or equal 70mm+ t.b.
310s or a little higher depending on your cam choice.
walbro 255
fpr
vafc/hondata


thats all i can think of for now
if you have the money then sleeve it, but its not gonna make a HUGE difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Agent#1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">save your money and forget the sleeves.
get forged rods, and pistons 12:1 comp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok so are you saying stay stock bore then? I really didn't want to do that as I think I would get a lot more power from 84-85mm bore size and tq which I need.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">use oversized valves</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can't use oversized valves on Skunk2 stage 2 or 3's.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get yourself an ITR intake manifold, port it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I already have a Skunk2 IM, don't know if porting it is gonna help as I don't think I will max out the efficiency of it with my planned set-up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">port your jdm 4-1, modify the merge collector.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Forgot to mention this was already done. Thanks S&M Racing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get an ericks t.b. or equal 70mm+ t.b., walbro 255</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you think either of these are necessary or beneficiary?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you have the money then sleeve it, but its not gonna make a HUGE difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What exactly are you saying? Not to overbore the motor? I hope you are not telling me to bore out my stock sleeves to 85mm.

 

WHy you bothering building the b16? seriously...you can hit 200whp with a very stockish LSVTEC.

Suprdave

 

70mm will help only a crucially built NA motor.
cant bore past 82 on stock sleeves. build an LS bottom end.

 

It's a 99 Civic si and I got another B16A2 block out of a 2000 si for free just sitting here. I like B16's, wanna see how far I can go with one with just some off the shelf parts. Like I said my goal is to break 200whp and hit a 12.99 or quicker at the track with my stock motor. That's all. Just cause.

P.S. I know you can't overbore past 82mm and I know 70mm is no good unless high hp all motor or force induction. Just trying to find out why others were saying this. Stated in this post why I'm not "building an LS block".

 

hummm.. good post. IF i were to do the all motor B16 route i would do this. (just IMHO):

B16a rebuilt at RSmachines with knief edge crank with FULL balancing.
bore to 84mm
PortFlow head with open up combustion camber to atleast 83mm
ferrera valves
Toda valvetrain up grade
Toda flywheel
Toda cam gears
Jun 3 cams
84mm JE pistons @ 11.5cr
APR head bolts
ITR or skunk intake manifold
hondata gaskets ^^
Edlebrock 65mm throttle body
RC 310cc injectors
really good headers (toda, jun, IB modded EdleBrock, AN-R, SMSP, Hytech)
Toda or JUN B16 to 1.8l stroker kit($2300)... sell the new pistons since they are 81mm for $350ish.
hondata

that would be my basic rundown of my B16..... it would be about 2.1 liter of DOHC Vtec power. Should make about 235whp with 150tq.

HTH

 

that would not be 2.1L

its still 84bore 89 stroke. which is a little less than 2.0L

 

Going the B16a Route is cool and the gang in my book, my only thing was that it looked like you wanted to go pretty hardcore and ere about to spend some $, so I would spend that money ona LSVTEC or B20 and make 10-25whp more with same money into it.

Suprdave

 

Thanks for all the opinions guys. Superdave I understand what you are saying and see where you are coming from. I guess I was more looking for opinions on what I was using as in would this set-up work. I am pretty set on as far as brand names and what parts I wanna use. My main concerns were fuel set-up (pump and injector size) and the whole spot-facing thing. It is funny it seems all I ever get is well it is not necessary but you can have it done. Well yeah I kinda figured that out. Anyone have some good quality input as to why I should or should not get it done? Spotfacing to match bore size that is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridvteceg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that would not be 2.1L

its still 84bore 89 stroke. which is a little less than 2.0L </TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry 84.5mm or is it 85mm bore with a jun/toda stroker kit would make it a 2.1ish displacement correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ok so are you saying stay stock bore then? I really didn't want to do that as I think I would get a lot more power from 84-85mm bore size and tq which I need.

You can't use oversized valves on Skunk2 stage 2 or 3's.

I already have a Skunk2 IM, don't know if porting it is gonna help as I don't think I will max out the efficiency of it with my planned set-up.


Forgot to mention this was already done. Thanks S&M Racing.

Do you think either of these are necessary or beneficiary?

What exactly are you saying? Not to overbore the motor? I hope you are not telling me to bore out my stock sleeves to 85mm. </TD></TR></TABLE>


no not telling you to bore the stock sleeves, i was just mentioning a 1mm over, i dont think youlle need to sleeve the block unless you really want to man, because after all its still only a b16a block, think about the resale on it....
i truly think u can do just fine without em.
good job on the JDM 4-1 already...
and yes, cleaning up the seams in the skunk2 manifold will help flow, and raise the powerban for you, since all your power will be on the top end anyway, make sure to go all the way up in there, have it proffesionally done incase you arent experienced with it.
use itr valves if anything bigger will mess you up in the cam department.

and yes, the walbro 255, and the 70mm t.b will help in so many ways.
glad to help

 

Thanks you sir Agent1. Cheetah brought something to my attention. He said "dependant on the piston you go with the dome does not come out to the bore of the piston, typically they stay confined at 80mm on the dome so no need to open up quench ... plus the fact that a smaller chamber will yield higher compression" Sounds like that makes sense to me. Don't know why I never just thought about it before. Oh well. Anyone else have anything to add to this?

 

u plan on running race gas daily? this a daily driver?

u dont need to spot face the combustion chambers, and its not even recommended by most head porters, and u lose CR when u do that anyway.

also, instead of blowing money on new valves i'd get a nice stret p&p from alaniz or portflow, that would be more beneficial to the big cams, LET THEM BREATHE

i'd go with a 255 walbro, no need for the HP one becuase ur gonan be stock pressure, and 370's would be fine, unless u need the 440's i wouldnt go bigger than necessary, u are sacraficing drivability and mpg, and why tune with a hondata s200 unless u need the 2 step and full throttle, if u dont want those get a s100

which intake mani? from the sounds of ur build i'd go for a jg/edebrock, cant beat the performance per dollar for that piece, and throttlebody, what size? 70mm would be good, dont think its too big, look at all the stuff u have...high cr with bigass cams, they need to get the air from somewhere...

doesnt sound like u will have any problems hiting 12's with that setup, there are somethings u mentioned that i wouldnt agree on and i would spend the money else where, but hey, its your money

 

Sp00n'd Supra:

Sunoco 94, Street/Track car. Yeah I realized spotfacing wasn't really needed after talking to cheetah. I plan on getting new valves and having portflow P&P my head so . Well I was just thinking 190lph would be enough and I would just get the high pressure incase. Are you saying 255lph regular pressure would be a better option? Not overkill? Hell yeah I want a 3-stage rev limiter and full throttle shifting. I'm not dumb or anything. I tell kids the same thing. A friend of mine has it on his blown '95GSR 4-door. What a great idea. to Hondata. Right now I have an ITR t/b and Skunk2 manifold. I guess I could go with an ER's 70mm and portmatch. Don't see the JG being a benefit to me. Thanks for the reply.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sp00n'd Supra:

Sunoco 94, Street/Track car. Yeah I realized spotfacing wasn't really needed after talking to cheetah. I plan on getting new valves and having portflow P&P my head so . Well I was just thinking 190lph would be enough and I would just get the high pressure incase. Are you saying 255lph regular pressure would be a better option? Not overkill? Hell yeah I want a 3-stage rev limiter and full throttle shifting. I'm not dumb or anything. I tell kids the same thing. A friend of mine has it on his blown '95GSR 4-door. What a great idea. to Hondata. Right now I have an ITR t/b and Skunk2 manifold. I guess I could go with an ER's 70mm and portmatch. Don't see the JG being a benefit to me. Thanks for the reply.</TD></TR></TABLE>

94 huh? u bastard, 91 crap for me...yea i'd say ur better off with a 255lph normal pressure, normal pressure because u would be using anything but near stock psi fuel pressure, ****, u dont even need the FPR technically, the hondata does the fuel mapping so u wont have to fiddle with the fuel pressure or anything like that. since u have the itr manifold already, then yea i'd stick with it, but the jg/edelbrock will only make u more power, ur build is far from "mild" so u will benefit, but yes, i'd say sell the itr tb to a jdm/itr part ***** and get urself a nice rpm service/ere 70mm billey throttle body, ur cams will thank u for it