hey,

I'm gettin a gs-r when I graduate from college next summer (14000 to buy and upgrade), and I was wondering what you thought about the list i've come up with so far:
Intake: AEM intake 170

Intake Manifold: skunk 2 $349.00

CAM shafts: Skunk2 719

Fuel Rail: 125 AEM fuel rail

Throttle Body: JG Edelbrock Throttle Body 375

Cat converter: 359 comptech

Header: DC 4-1 300

Exhaust: Skunk 2 460

I plan on setting aside 1800 for an aero kit (simple wings west), wheels, and tires, and some money for repairs and installation. If i find a GS-R for around 7 large, all the parts w/o installation runs to be about 11-12000, leaving me extra cash. If there is anything you feel as though must be added for reasonably priced power or anything that doesn't need to be on my list and can be replaced, I'm curious to find out what that is. I'm considering Greddy turbo but the money and reliability seems to be a big issue, this car has to last (hense the extra money for repairs I'm keeping.) Also, I was curious what kind of power my car would put out if made all the upgrades i listed.

Thanks, Hiro

 

Well, do you just want to mildly/moderately mod your car? Or eventually go more aggresive? I'm assuming you are planning on more aggresive mods eventually since you are considering a turbo.

You really need to spell out your long term performance goals. What kind of car (drag, autocorss?), what kind of power N/A (175whp, 225whp, or more?) or FI (turbo with 300whp?). Will it be a daily drive? Long trips to work and back daily driver? For example, Skunk2 IM is good for N/A, but there are better ones out there for FI. You can't really build a killer N/A car, and then just throw a Turbo on there. The parts will be all wrong, they won't match up and work will together. I'm guessing it is going to be a daily driver, so I'm sure you want it to be reliable.

In that case, If you are planing on spending ~$7000 on the car, and have $6000-$7000 for moding. I would go with building up the internals first.

If I where you, with that $6000 I would:

- look into getting a block resleeved and bored out to a larger displacement. This will give you stronger cylinder walls and allow you to increase your displacement, as well as run higher boost. (I did this and went with Golden Eagle Mfg.) Go with around 84mm if you will still eventually want to turbo, maybe a little bigger if you want to remain N/A.

- upgrade your connecting rods (Eagle, Probe, Cower, etc. Research and find what would be best for you and your application)

- upgrade your pistons (Wiseco, JE, etc). If you want a reliable N/A engine, go with around 12:1 compression (you can go higher with good tuning, but too much higher and it may start to be too high for a daily driver on pumped gas) If you plan on going FI, get around 9:1 - 10:1 compression. If it will be a while before you go FI, go with 10:1, that will maintain a decent compression while N/A, but still be in the range where you can run a decent boost and still be reliable when properly tuned.

- have your crank polished and balanced with your rodes.

If this is your one and only car, I'm sure don't want to have your car torn apart and be without it. So, you can buy a block packaged how you want it. This kind of block will probably run you $3000+. Since you are on the West Coast, check out http://www.importbuilders.com. . (check out their #7 Block Package.) I'm not saying you have to use them. The are somewhat pricey. But it is basically a BRAND NEW BLOCK. New pumps, seals, etc. Shop around. Search. See what kind of deals/prices you can come up with.

Now, if this isn't your one and only car, you can take your time, pull you block apart, do all of the labor yourself, and save some money (plus have more fun in the meantime).

Next, I would look at your head:

- look into a port and polish

- upgrade your vlave train (Ti retainers, vlave springs, possibely intake valves). Portflow seems to be well recommended.

- bigger cames (how big depends on what you want... again, research).

This type of head could run you around $1500-$2500 depending on what you want.

Or you could just buy a complet engine engine. http://www.importbuilders.com also has complete engine packages you can buy. And then it can be swapped in over a weekend. Although, importbuilder is very pricey. However, it is basically a brand new engine. All new seals, pumps, gaskets, belts, pluse all the upgrades. So, it should last.

You can also look up SGT-Racing. He could build you a good mottor too! He is on the East Coast. (shipping will probably rub about $300) His website (<U>www.sgt-racing.com</U>) isn't much to look at. It's been under construction... FOREVER. But Steve Sakai is a very cool guy, and really knows his stuff. If you do a search around this board, you will find he is very well respected.

I bought my engine from ImportBuilders. Seems to be a sold engine. But for the price, I haven't been 100% happy to say the least. I've had some problems. (although, nothing major) The valves were not sealing (valve seats just needed reconditioned), headgasket leaking, and a shoty engine mount.

But since I live on the East Coast, I take my car to Steve at STG-Racing for tuning, advice, etc.

I would look for maybe even an LS for cheaper, then swap in a newly built engine. You can easily upgrade your engine and suspension to smoke a GSR with that kind of money. And you could probably sell the LS engine and make your money back (maybe $1200-$1600. I sold mine for $1500).

Anyway, that is the route I took. Since I had a big chunk of money, I went for the aggressive engine (even though I won't get the most out of it yet with stock exhaust and stuff). I'm hoping after I finish up the bolt-ons and with good tuning by Steve, I will be are 210-220whp in a ture daily driver (putting about 500-600 miles on it a week). And as I have the money I can spend a few hunder hear and there for Exhaust, Skunk2 IM, etc.

I'm hoping to have a nice Hytech Cat-back and Cat on their by the end of the summer!


Sorry, this got so long (I'm at work, and it's slow right now... so I was bored).

You should really write down what kind of car you want. What you goals are. And then do your reseach from there.

Oh, and don't forget about the suspention, tranny, etc. All I was getting into was the engine. (but for the most part, your suspention can be lumped in with those parts you will mod as you get the money down the rode) I was bored, but not that bored. haha..

Good Luck!


Modified by PSU-TEG at 10:34 AM 5/22/2003


Modified by PSU-TEG at 10:39 AM 5/22/2003


Modified by PSU-TEG at 10:42 AM 5/22/2003

 

Yeah, what he said! That is one of the best answers to a question I have ever seen.

Sort of off topic but what (if any) advantages would the I.B. 2.0L B18C have over getting a Dart block with an 84MM bore (approx. 2.0L) and matching that with forged internals, PnP head etc. I am looking at a Turboed 2.0L and am exploring my options.

 

Well, I.B. (ImportBuilders) gets their engine blocks Re-sleeved by Golden Eagle Mfg. And I.B. will package your motor with forged interanls, PnP head, etc (and pretty much build it however you want).

So, if you are asking the difference between Golden Eagle Mfg and Dart, as far as sleeves go.....

Golden Eagles sleeves maintain the open deck design. This keeps the coolent flowing freely up through the head to maintain good cooling on our high rpm heads. And also, the cylinders remain completely surroundedby coolent as well.

Dart Blocks I believe use a closed deck design (they might have some small holes to let coolent flow to they head, but for the most part they are pretty closed off / restricked) I'm not real sure abot Dart Blocks. If they are closed decks, this will keep coolent from flowing well up through the head, which intern will hinder cooling. But the advantage to the closed deck is a stronger block.

However, Golden Eagle Mfg guarentees there "Godzilla" Sleeves will take up to 40 psi of boost with a max bore size of 85mm. No way any street car is going to be running that high. I don't even think race only cars run that high.

I went with Golden Eagle. Even if I ever do decide I want to rebuild my car into a turbo. I doubt I will ever be running much more than 20psi. (since I will probably want it to be streetable).

In my opion:
Opened Deck (Golden Eagle Mfg.) = better for a daily driven / street car.
Closed Deck (Dart Block) = better for race only applications.

Oh, and I think typically ImportBuilders uses a 84-84.5mm bore for their "2.0L Blocks"


But at any rate, I am far from an expert. I don't really know that else much about Dart blocks. So, I can't really compair the two any better. Good luck with your search.




Modified by PSU-TEG at 10:55 AM 5/22/2003

 

I'm only going for a about 230 hp (190 whp?). You think i could do that with intake, intake manifold, upgraded camshaft, header, cat converter, and exhaust? I'm not too interested in a new engine, the process of selling and buying seems to be a huge hassle. I'm starting to think that maybe NA is the way to go with my amount of money. Two questions though: 1. the ratio with upgraded pistons, what does that ratio mean (pressure:air+gas volume?), and 2. the stock ratio is 10:1, so should i only ugrade pistons if i keep it NA? by looking at how an engine works, i'm guessing that the ratio should be lower for turbo because too high of a ratio puts too much pressure on the engine.


Also, if i ugprade camshaft, should i upgrade valves and springs?

 

yea 190 is very possible just get some more agressive cams like jun or toda, or even skunk stage 2's and higher. you'll need better valvetrain of course. tuning them with hondata and cam gears will help alot also. ohh yea you need higher compression if you dont wanna get new pistons you could always get a mugen headgasket should bump it up to nearly 10.5:1. good luck! oh yea i'm selling some parts so you could get started accumulating now

 

With a hondata, skunk stage 2s, and 11.5:1 compression you should hit 190 HP easy. This is of course with I/H/E.

PSU-TEG- thanks for the info, you are quite informative

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projecthiro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm only going for a about 230 hp (190 whp?). You think i could do that with intake, intake manifold, upgraded camshaft, header, cat converter, and exhaust? I'm not too interested in a new engine, the process of selling and buying seems to be a huge hassle. I'm starting to think that maybe NA is the way to go with my amount of money. Two questions though: 1. the ratio with upgraded pistons, what does that ratio mean (pressure:air+gas volume?), and 2. the stock ratio is 10:1, so should i only ugrade pistons if i keep it NA? by looking at how an engine works, i'm guessing that the ratio should be lower for turbo because too high of a ratio puts too much pressure on the engine.


Also, if i ugprade camshaft, should i upgrade valves and springs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily the valves - valveSPRINGS and retainers
190 whp is easily attainable. I made 194.6 whp on one run on skunk2 stage 1 cams and other stuff - no pistons yet. Keyword: yet.
Anyway -- good setup you have there planned.
Re: the DC header - get a JDM 4-1 or a Comptech 4-2-1. Id stay away from the standard DC 4-2-1, or 4-1.

Also -- ne need to shell out 385 for a cat -- that is about 285 too much - get a Carsound Cat for 100$. They are a huge force in the business.

 

If getting a used car and adding significant power, I would definately plan on suspension and tires. If purely for street use or mild autocross, KYB, Koni, or Tokico shocks and some upgraded springs. Don't go with much of a ride height drop if driving on real, potholed, streets. Plus a rear swaybar to reduce understeer. Possibly bushings, depending on condition. Good tires make a huge difference. The stock Michelins are pitiful, unless you think second gear rubber is cool. The Falken Azenis is good in a dry climate, I'm runing Kuhmo MX and it's really good too, and a little better in the rain. Remember, on an Integra, tires bigger than 15" accelerate slower and don't handle better. Plus more expensive, more prone to pothole damage, and more appreciated by thieving scum.

 

With a year I wouldnt even stress...Id drive myself crazy thinkin about how long it'd be before I get a sweet *** Integra, nm be able to customize it :-P

Just teasin ya..

Id prob go with what neo1z is talkin about, he's done some great stuff re: n/a.

Ugh 1 year to think about it...shudder...