Planning on doing some alignment "tuning" soon, so got a couple questions.

Ive done some searching, and it seems the major concensus is that zero toe in the rear, and 1/8 total toe out(1/16 each side) in front is what many people are running on their R. I read in one of the threads that zero toe in the rear is NOT within spec. Anyway, does this particular setting affect the car in a certain way? ie, compared to normal stock settings, how does 1/8 total toe out in front and 0 toe in rear affect the cars handling? if worse comes to worst, Ill just set them as close to spec as possible.

Also, how much does camber come into play with toe settings? Im currently on H&R sport springs, which gave me a little bit more negative camber all around, so should I use a camber kit to get it close to stock spec, and then play with the toe? or use a different toe setting with the current camber I have? My car is basically a street car, with a couple HPDEs, and drag track days scheduled for the summer.

 

I can't speak about camber, but I can tell you what those toe settings will do, compared to spec, at least in general terms.

Toe out in front, no matter how slight, helps turn in. It is very noticeable. It can affect tire wear, but i have noticed no odd wear on either my S-03's or my Azenis.

Zero Toe in rear will help promote rotation. In other words, the back end of your car will be more apt to step out. This is not a bad thing, but if you aren't aware that the backend will be more lively, it could be bad.

The car feels much better at 1/8 total toe out (F) and Zero toe (R) than it did at stock specs. Not really necessary on the street, spec if fine, but I leave it that way for track and street.

Adjusting toe WILL change the camber. I'm not sure what you do first, toe or camber.

Edit: switched camber/toe in last sentence. Thanks vtec.dc2

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Adjusting camber WILL change the toe. I'm not sure what you do first, toe or camber.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you mean adjusting toe will affect camber?

 

I would not run at specs for specs sake.

I run 1/8" Toe out in the front and Zero rear and have run as much as 1/4" toe out in the front.

I run 2.0 degrees negative camber in the front and 1.75 negative degrees of camber in the rear.

That said I have found the Zeal B6's with this setup tend to push even when set to rotate. I woudl like to increase my spring rate but I raised the car up so my first step will be a new alignment.

I will be going to about 2.1-2.2 degrees negative in the front and 1.5 degrees negative in the rear.

I will likely run 1/4" toe out (I think Yoshi has run this as well with not bad tire wear but for the sqeemish 1/8 is plenty).

I use SRR rear camber kit and Skunk 2 arms for front camber adjustment. Camber isn't what wears your tires and the main reason to get a camber kit on our cars unless you car is lowered more than it should be is to ADD (not remove) negative camber.

Trey

 

If camber and toe are both adjustable you always adjust camber first. Because true toe will affect camber but only slightly. While camber will have a huge affect on toe so camber first then toe.

 

I asked this on a different thread but got no response so I fuigured I'd try here..

I just installed the Skunk2 camber kit and set the camber to 1.25 on both sides using the Quick Race camber gauge (I know it is not precise but it will do until I get it done as soon as I install the rear camber kit this weekend). I should mention I have GC/Koni Sport at 350F/400R with the Mugen 26mm rear bar. For the street I set the Konis to 3/4 stiff in the front and the rears are at full stiff 24/7. I am running on stock wheels with 205/50/15 Azenis
Now my questions are?

1) Why do some people set the camber on the left less than on the right?

-If it is because of weight transfer in the turn and wouldn't a weight balancing take care of that where you would not need it?

2) With the current adjustment when I take a turn at the same speed I used to, the tire starts screeching, not a lot, just enought to hear it
- Is this because of the 1.25 left camber and would making the camber more like 0.75 fix this or at least help?
- And I will say that stiffening the shocks will help with this as well.

3) the steering is much softer and sensitive, my theory is because of the camber adjustment and the fact that the tires are not flat on the ground right?


and

4) How do I adjust and measure toe? Can I do this myself or only at an alignment shop?

If anyone wants I can take a tape measure and check the height.

Some of these things I will say are common sense and I know the answers to, but I just want to make sure I am not missing anything or misunderstanding the process.

Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Renegade &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I asked this on a different thread but got no response so I fuigured I'd try here..

I just installed the Skunk2 camber kit and set the camber to 1.25 on both sides using the Quick Race camber gauge (I know it is not precise but it will do until I get it done as soon as I install the rear camber kit this weekend). I should mention I have GC/Koni Sport at 350F/400R with the Mugen 26mm rear bar. For the street I set the Konis to 3/4 stiff in the front and the rears are at full stiff 24/7. I am running on stock wheels with 205/50/15 Azenis
Now my questions are?

1) Why do some people set the camber on the left less than on the right?

-If it is because of weight transfer in the turn and wouldn't a weight balancing take care of that where you would not need it?

2) With the current adjustment when I take a turn at the same speed I used to, the tire starts screeching, not a lot, just enought to hear it
- Is this because of the 1.25 left camber and would making the camber more like 0.75 fix this or at least help?
- And I will say that stiffening the shocks will help with this as well.

3) the steering is much softer and sensitive, my theory is because of the camber adjustment and the fact that the tires are not flat on the ground right?


and

4) How do I adjust and measure toe? Can I do this myself or only at an alignment shop?

If anyone wants I can take a tape measure and check the height.

Some of these things I will say are common sense and I know the answers to, but I just want to make sure I am not missing anything or misunderstanding the process.

Thanks


</TD></TR></TABLE>

1) probably something in relation to driver weight on the left side. Im assuming driver weight will theoretically make the left side camber the same or close to the same as the right side.

2)tough to say. I DUMPED my civic in the front and have crazy camber(im a stunna ) and notice the tires screech a lot more. My guess is that the inside tire is riding more on the sidewall than the contact patch, therefore less tread, thus the screeching noise. Something like this could also be related to tire pressure so you might wanna play with that a bit.

3)steering will be more sensitive with more front camber. but i think depending on your front toe settings, camber will affect sensitivity differently. i noticed this on my civic and also on my del Sol.

4)you can make DIY with a camber/alignment rack with string and piping(search around I think EDIT: Ausmith(thanks 95hbmatt) made one awhile back...), but not sure if you can use that for toe or not.

someone correct me if Im wrong.



Modified by RTW DC2 at 8:33 AM 5/15/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4)you can make DIY with a camber/alignment rack with string and piping(search around I think asspenny made one awhile back...), but not sure if you can use that for toe or not.

someone correct me if Im wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Posted up by Ausmith: (Had it saved in my Notepad)


Okay - it actually cost me $17.94 becuase I already had the jack stands, tape measure, and one set of clamps.

What you need:
1) 2 pieces of 10' (that's feet) of 3/4" or 1" metal or PVC conduit
2) Nylon string - at least 50 feet
3) 4 medium size spring clamps
4) 4 jack stands
5) A drill and a selection of bits
6) Tape measure
7) A small metal ruler that goes down to at least 1/16th" and that is at least 6" long
8) Pipe cutter or hack saw

The concept - you are going to make a perfect box around the car using the conduit (up on jack stands) and the string.

Cut each of the conduit to a length of 100" (that's inches). You need to be acurate here. I used a hack saw but I think I pipe cutter would be a better tool.

Measure 12" from each end of the conduit and mark it with a small dot.

Drill a small hole where you made the marks and let the hole continue to through the opposite side of the conduit so you end up with 2 holes - or a total of 8 holes (2 pieces of conduit with 2 holes on each side).

Place the jack stands near all four corners of the car. Put the conduit across the jack stands. At this point you should have a piece of conduit resting on top of the jack stands spanning the width of the car both front and rear. Use the clamps to secure the conduit to the jack stands.

Take the string and feed it through both holes on either side of the front conduit. Tie it in a knot - make sure the string has some abiltity to move around the conduit. take the other end of the stringand pull it down towards the rear piece of conduit. Feed it through both holes, pull it tight, and tie it into a knot. Repeat for the other side.

You should now have a "box" aorund the car... Should look something like this:


Now you need to "square the box" and make sure that the box is even on each wheel. Basically you use a tape measure, or a ruler as described above, and mesaure from the center cap of each wheel out to the string. You will need to slide the conduit around to acheive a perfect box... it needs to be an equal box unless the rear of the car has a different track than the front... if that is the case then the two front measurements should be equal and so should the rears.

Now you are going to measure the tow by measuring from the front side of the rim out to the string and from the rear side. The difference will be the actual toe measurement in inches (or mm depending on what type of ruler you have). By the way your steering wheel should be straight before you start this process!

You can reach under and adjust the front tie rod ends or the rear compensator arm to change the toe.... Here are a couple more pictures.







With this method you can get your toe set to within 1/32" very accurately. The other advantage is that you can take the stuff with you to the track. Oh yeah and it cost me less than $20.

I set my front toe in 45minutes tonight

 

Perfect thread for me, should be getting an alignment sometime next week