I was about to order a set of skunk2 cams for $180 shipped but after further research as well as the dyno plots by importreview - https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=43599 I've decided to go w/ a set of Type R cams.

Here's my questions. Do I still need a dyno after switching to Type R cams? How much did those of you pay for them? What else should I consider upgrading along w/ the cams (intake mainfold, timing, port/polish) to get max hp? If I do go w/ Type R cams, should I go w/ a Type R mainfold instead of the Skunk2? I also prefer not to advance my timing or bump up my ecu and I'm not interested in getting the VFAC.

Any recommendations/suggestions would be great..thnx




[Modified by EminemGSR, 7:16 PM 7/8/2001]

 

stock cams are $250 each from A&H. The skunk manifold is just a copy of the ITR one.

I suggest getting a CTR ('98+ JDM ITR) intake cam ($300 +/-) and a USDM ITR exhaust cam (same for all ITR's/CTR's). You'll be happy with the results. HTH, -C

 

well if ur not interested in adv ur timing or getting the VAFC u might as well stay stock.
you are gonna need cam gears, skunk2 mani (bolts right on), and VAFC to take advantage of the ITR camshafts. u should be able to hit high 160's or low 170's with that after tuning on the dyno.
i would get both ITr cams too not just the intake. no need to get beefier valvetrain since u dont want to change ur redline.

 

I don't believe in the VAFC b/c I agree w/ some reviews and personal reviews I've been hearing. I've hit low 15s w/ what I have rite now, but I would like to get into the 14s consistently. Here's what I have right now.. Greddy SP, Iceman intake, MSD Ignition, Tokico yellows, Magnecor Wires, Neuspeed Strut/Tie Bars.

I don't agree w/ u that if I don't get the VAFC or advancing my timing that I might as well stay stock. If I went w/ the Skunk2 cams and mani and dyno I would def. get a increase in power w. out the VAFC or timing upgrade.

 

Still wondering if I need another dyno after replacing my stock cams w/ Type R's.

 

If you dont get a vafc and move your vtec from 4400 to about 5200 you will lose hp from 4400 to 5200. You need to move the vtec so your fuel delivery can match the air delivery of the cams. You also need cam gears and a dyno to get the most out of the cams.

 

Also you said you found a set of skunk2 cams for $180? I would like to know what shop that was from. Skunk2 cam gears sale for $180 , I dont know how you could get skunk2 cams for $180.

 

To answer your question, if you have adj. cam gears you should dyno tune after getting the cams. Also, if you don't get the V-AFC you will have a big dip in the midrange from not adjusting the vtec crossover point. Don't believe me? feel free to dyno before and after. You will make more peak horsepower even w/o the V-AFC but higher peak hp does not always make your car run quicker. btw, the ITR manifold may cost less but it is not a direct bolt on like the skunk2 manifold.

One more thing, I would take those dyno charts on the other post you mentioned w/ a grain of salt. When doing before/after dyno's, they should be done on the same exact engine, that was obviously not the case there. I've seen other before/after dyno charts that conflict with those.

 

I agree w/ u WOT about the conflicting dyno charts. The main reason I preferred the Type R cams is b/c they're designed to be easier on your engine and create less wear. Also, they're designed more for the daily driver as described in that post.

 

Here's the link to the Skunk2 groupbuy for $180.
http://www.groupbuycenter.com/buy.asp?row_id=2878

There's a couple other places that have them on special for this price too. If you need them lemme know.


[Modified by EminemGSR, 9:37 PM 7/8/2001]

 

Which cam gears do u recommend to go w/ the Type R cams and the Skunk2 mainfold?

 

it doesn't matter. all cam gears do the same thing. The differences are in wieght, quality, and number of bolts. The skunk2 are very light and have 6 bolts compared to the numerous 3 bolt designs like AEM. with 6 bolts there isn't a chance of the gears slipping. HTH, -C
Oh yeah, you'll need a V-afc. at 4.4K it feels like you put on the breaks without it.

 

skunk2 cams,,,,,, http://www.diabloautosports.com/prod...roducts_id=198 skunk2 cam gears http://www.diabloautosports.com/prod...products_id=39

skunk2 manifold http://www.diabloautosports.com/prod...oducts_id=1337

 

what springs and retainers would you guys recommend with the CTR intake cam and ITR exhuast? ill be running these and probably some skunk2 cam gears but im kind of clueless on what valvetrain to go with cause i've been told various things

i've been told with the ITR springs i could rev to 9k all day long, but i've also been told by some carshops that i should get an aftermarket valvetrain just to be on the safe side.

 

hey man, if u dont increase ur redline u can keep stock valvetrain
but if u do increase ur redline w/ chipped ECU or just prefer beefier valvetrain for reassurance then ITR outer valvesprings, portflow innervalve springs and Ti retainers will do just great. u cant go wrong with OEM stuff

 

well this is easy, get ITR cams and Skunk2 gears.

I did and it feels great,
Also, I cant figure out what people are talking about with the-
"feels like you put on the brakes at 4400rpm if you dont tune w/ a VAFC" my car pulls and pulls and pulls, then VTEC hits and it PULLS and PULLS and PULLS screamin'!!!

 

my gsr is never at 4400 rpm's anyways. eh eh eh eh eh it's always alot higher than that

 

With my CTR cams, there is a noticable Drop in power when Vtec comes in if you leave it at 4.4K. I set it to 5.3K and it pulls all the way to redline. 4.4K is too low for ITR cams as well. -C

 

When does VTEC engage for Type R's?

 

5.6-5.7K for ITR's. You have to realize that It'll have to be lower if you are using the GSR intake manifold. Even at 5.3K I can feel a surge in power (which means it should be a tad lower optimally).

 

Hey all,

First, the VTEC engages at approx 5700 rpm or so in the ITR, not sure on specifics. Here is my dyno plot back when I had the CTR intake cam/stock GSR exhaust cam.



**EDIT** Weird, the img worked yesterday? Here is the URl to my dyno plot.
http://members.tripod.com/DecalFree/.../FranzDyno.gif

**EDIT EDIT** well just go to the DFH page in my sig and the dyno section or tuning or whatever I called it, heh.

Do you see the ~7 TQ dip between 4500 and 5000 rpm? This is where it switched to the high lobe at 4400 and the car bogs pretty badly. With the ITR intake cam it may not be as noticeable, since the CTR intake cam is a little more aggressive (3 degrees more duration, same lift).

The other two plots are with the VTEC X OVER set to 5000 or so. The conventional wisdom with the ITR cams used to be ~4800 rpm and a little higher for the CTR cams.

I would def recommend the Skunk manifold and the skunk cam gears, I have both now. Instead of the V-AFC or whatever, you could get your ecu tuned and move the VTEC point that way, but then you don't have the versatility. On the postiive side, you could then raise your redline. I think you could make a little more power if you raise redline to 8500 or so. My car seemed to make peak HP right at stock fuel shut-off, so I wish I had a few more rpm back then.

A port and polish is def good as well. With the cam gears, you'll probably benefit from dialing in a little more overlap (advance intake and retard exhaust). I believe I was at +2 intake and -2 exhaust back then.

I hope my new dyno plot is a few HP and TQ higher than this one, heh.

FWIW, I had AEM cam gears before, and like most people, I did not have any problems until my new setup. They slipped and all my valves were bent This is why I have the Skunks now...

Take care,

FB

 

owen,

If you don't feel the dip then your butt dyno is not as good mine & typeC's go on the dyno and you will see the dip for sure, it starts at 4400 rpm.

berkel,

Your dyno chart link doesn't seem to work but I've seen dyno charts of just the type-r intake cam and both type-r intake & exhaust cams. I think if you only have the type-r intake cam then the dip is much smaller and you can get away w/ not changing the vtec point. But if you get both in/ex type-r cams, you lose too much if you don't adjust the vtec point.

as for cam gears, I wouldn't get any that have teeth made out of aluminum, it is more prone to slippage over time. Better to be safe and use gears that have the same material as stock i.e. JUN, HKS, the original Toda's etc.

 

ITR's have a dual stage VTEC. It will switch over at 6k under normal driving. At WOT it will switch over at 5700rpm.

 

While VTEC may switch over at different points according to rpms and throttle, the performance style VTEC the integras and NSX's have is a single stage VTEC. You're either on the high cam or the low cam. While the GSR has a dual plenum intake manifold for a "dual stage" intake (secondaries opening at 6k), do not confuse this with VTEC.

 

aaaaaaaaaw man!
I figured my butt dyno was pretty good, and its been gettin' bigger ever since I gave up skateboarding too....

oh well, a trip to VTEC4GS in NJ will cure this 'dip' that I cant even feel!