Okay. I've got a 97 civic hatchback with an h22a1 in it and a JDM h22a tranny. and i can feel that i'm getting pretty flat on my top end. Now i know this motor aint no top end monster but all my friends that have integra R motors or Skunk manifolds in B motors just suck me up at the top of third and bottom of forth and it's fun up until around 80mph and then it gets pretty aggrevating. Well i've opened up two options for myself... ghetto rig mine for right now by taking out my middle plenum or just bypassing the butterflies by switching some hoeses around??? i dunno... i just need some cheap top end... and i heard it could be done. if i could have some help out there, that'd be great.

some other info that might be important: i'm runnin on chipped P28 with APEXi VAFC with some boltons.
-Thanks a lot guys.

 

You could get your intake manifold ported which I am about to get done.. I am sick of waiting on skunk2 .. This is best alternative I have found for the H22 motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...i just need some cheap top end...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ain't no such thing.

 

don't mess with your manifold - you will only lose power

 

I just started specs on a composite H22a Intake Manifold....stay tuned...there's a big thread on PO.com on it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mealsoaswelltoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ghetto rig mine for right now by taking out my middle plenum or just bypassing the butterflies by switching some hoeses around??? i dunno... i just need some cheap top end... and i heard it could be done. if i could have some help out there, that'd be great.

some other info that might be important: i'm runnin on chipped P28 with APEXi VAFC with some boltons.
-Thanks a lot guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>

first off taking out the middle butterflies would shorten the lenth and in THEORY would make more high end power, but is it useable power.

secondly disconecting them only makes a difference from idle~5k, then they open and its the same up on. you lose tq from idle-3k, and maybe gain a little 3-5.

third, you said you have a chipped p28, i was under the impression that p28 dont support them and there open all the time...OR you have a wrong vacume line on there and they are closed all the time and thats why you are dying up high!

forth, you dont have to rev high, use YOUR power bands to their advantage and smoke who ever you racing, cause in the end it comes down to the driver.

 

so are my butterflies open all the time? or closed all the time? it's to my understanding that the butterflies aren't controlled by the ecu but rather by vacuum and pressure and junk. so does that mean they work normally and i shouhld do nothing? thanks again guys.

and howcome i can't get my sig to have an image in it? i'm doing all the right things!!!! here's the addy for the image if anyone can help me
http://www.imagestation.com/pi...1.jpg

 

sigs don't support images.

the P28 is the wrong ecu for secondary butterlies. I'd take them out since you can't control them. And they ARE controlled by the ECU.

You'r "Top end" is also dead because the cams quit making power after a certain RPM. You want more top end, replace your cams.

 

I have both manifold at the shop, Euro-Type-R manifold (modified) and ported stock manifold, and when you compare boht in every aspect there is significant diffecens in design and flow patterns... i should have pics soon ànd i`ll try to explain both...

it`s not just the fact that the euro-R manifold is shorter is hte way the flow is dealth with.... and how it interacts with the h22a head.

like i said once the manifold is done (euro-R) i`ll post pictures....

 

hai like i said take dem ugly hoes off you have a hatch back not a accord or lude so why are you worried. just listen to me get rid of it. and on top of dat u running da chipped p28 dat pisal chiped for u. that ECU does NOT control the butterflys. so that mean it stays open the whole time. like i said get rid of it. and quit being a noobie

 

easy way to tell, have the car running, then pull the vacume line off the butterflies, if they move, then they were closed all the time, if not they are open. no matter what, w/a p28 you need to disconnect them and block off the vacume line.

 

Not the h series but its the fastest all motor honda.
I guess I have no idea of what I m talking about.

 

The intake runner butterflies are controlled by vacuum and are opened or closed with a signal from the ECU. Having them open (vacuum disconnected) opens all eight runners (4 long runners and 4 short runners).

 

you mean this

 

i dont get the pic??? what are you trying to show us???

anywho..if hes running p28 by default it would leave them closed wouldnt it ????

if thats the prob then thats why your top end sucks

 

If you want more top end buy cams and valvetrain and have your head ported and polished. Mine still pulls very hard past 8K. Your ECU isn't helping you out either, get a jdm p13 and have it chipped. No such thing as cheap power if you want it done right. Also get rid of your cat. thats a cheap way to make more top end.

 

So what is the downside of keeping all runners open besides losing some low end torque? I am not making any power after around 4500rpm so it sounds like that's what my problem is. I am using a p28 as well on a Prelude.

 

if you remove to much, and have to much open space, you have to much of a plenum volume which in reality kills your velocity... to much space will simply kill your bottom end and going to big will also kill your top end as well.. but that is simply the design... velocity in a normally aspirated motor is essential for volumetric efficiency to output the max power of the pump! or engine...

 

nice intake manifold on the gsr there. well today i went out to my car, started her up and waited for her to warm and then i started to mess with the throttle plate. i reved her up slowly to 7k and the butterfly valve didn't move at all... then i let it idle then gave it a WOT pull and they moved! the valve moved so i let it idle again and i unplugged the vacuum line that was attached to it and it moved again and stayed that way! and the idle went up a bit then went back down. but i heard a hissing noise from the line and i tried to pinch it somehow but no go... so what does that mean? should i leave the line disconnected? if i disconnected that vacuum hose making the secondaries open all the time then that means all 8 runners are open? or jsut the top ones? well... tahnks for all the help, and sorry for all the questions! I"M A n00b!
-thanks-