I'm running on H&R race springs and I have a rear Spoon tower strut bar. Now my question is would I benefit from a stiffer front tower strut bar? I have started taking my car to the track.
Also would a stiffer front bar contribute to more under-steer or over-steer?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NunRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also would a stiffer front bar contribute to more under-steer or over-steer?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Neither. Your car comes stock with a front bar, dont waste your money.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Neither. Your car comes stock with a front bar, dont waste your money.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know but the other day I compared the stock bar to an OMP bar and the OMP bar didn't flex at all while my stock bar flexed like crazy.
So I guess there will be basically no difference in handling then?

 

not on a wishbone suspension car.

 

ok thanks for the help

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not on a wishbone suspension car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand that on our cars it's really a shock tower bar, not a strut tower (for obvious reasons) and that it's supposed to have little effect...is it worth it to have one at all? Will the be any noticeable effect front or rear? Is OEM totally sufficient?

 

IMHO its just a bar. they all do the same job , thicker, stronger, thinner, black, silver etc

i dont think there is any bar that gives you an advantage over another one.


i also dont think you will notice a difference from adding or replacing your strut tower bar.

the cusco front lower tie bar is the only bar that i have notcied making a difference on a car, with the exception of sway bars.

my shitty 2 cents.

 

 

well...since the shock towers on the DC2 aren't stressed like those on a macMuffin strut car i wouldn't worry about upgrading it....besides the front can't be flexing too much with that hunk of metal that's right between the shock towers

 

ha ha.... you guys have lost your minds. The front upper tie bar is one of the most important modifications imo. Why? Because even in the Honda's front a-arm design, there is still considerable forces acting on the shock towers, and they do flex. Adding a tie bar reduces that flex and make the car easier to "read" in corners (especially entering them where things are most hairy in a fwd car).

And there is a big difference between those nasty cheap ones and a good mugen or neuspeed (yes the neuspeed one is decent too). And while I too think that it does more for a strut car, it's absolutely worth using one. If you have one from the factory, it's probably a decent one. If you don't have one, you really should go get one. It's so critical in fwd cars to be able to feel what the front is doing, and the upper front tie bar will firm up the structure of the car and allow you to feel the road more easily.

Respectfully,
Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChrisShen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because even in the Honda's front a-arm design, there is still considerable forces acting on the shock towers,</TD></TR></TABLE>

So mister we have lost our minds would you care to explain to us what those forces are? And if they are so benifical how come most of the competitive CRX's I know do not run one, and those who have taken them off have noticed better turn in reaction from thier cars? In fact I know a certian Captian who had front strut tower bar on an eagle talon, and took it off and he notieced the car turned in better... seems to be oppisite of what your saying ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So mister we have lost our minds would you care to explain to us what those forces are? And if they are so benifical how come most of the competitive CRX's I know do not run one...</TD></TR></TABLE>

well, Chris did place 1st in STS at nationals, so i think he might be on to something, at least for autocross...

 

hmmm.... not sure. i didn't know most competitive crx's don't run one. seems odd to me. Maybe the added compliance in front is making the car balanced differently. i'll have to look into that one. which crx's are you talking about?
Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Philbert &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well, Chris did place 1st in STS at nationals, so i think he might be on to something, at least for autocross...</TD></TR></TABLE>

No to be a smart ***, that just proves he's one hell of adriver with a decent setup... and if he did not run a strut tower bar, he would have probably still won.

As far as which crx's proably none that you know of Chris, they guys I have talked with don't autocross nationally, or are road racers.

And I anot saying Chris is wrong... I Just would like more information, I will say I noticed a diffence on my del sol when I add upper and lower front shock tower bars.. however most of it was in less body shake, I did not seem to notice any change in handeling.

 

Well, here's my take on the upper bar: anything that makes for a stiffer structure is good. How much better it will make the car is debatable. A front tower bar will not make as noticeable of a change as bumping spring rates by 100% or changing camber by 2 degrees. But as Chris said, it will give you a much better feel for what the front end is doing. It will make the front end more predictable. These are relatively subtle changes. It will not noticeably change the handling balance of the car but it will improve the handling IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCED ENOUGH TO NOTICE IT.

So my advice to anyone contemplating this or any other mod to their car is: spend your money first on seat time and instruction. Once you well and truly know the fine details of your car's handling, then make changes. You will be able to appreciate them much more. Also, only change one thing at a time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No to be a smart ***, that just proves he's one hell of adriver with a decent setup... and if he did not run a strut tower bar, he would have probably still won.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

the car placed first the year before, with a different driver...

but of course, narrowing down success to one installed/uninstalled part is impossible.

 

I'm very open to other ideas about suspension stuff.... and it's just that it's been a long time since I've heard anyone say a front tie bar doesn't do anything. In the 15 years I've been racing, I've always felt significant improvements from adding a tie bar in front.... and i happen to like the neuspeed one (I know that makes me sort of a ninny). oh well. and about loosing you mind, I lost mine a long time ago. I think the more I get into this, the more stupid I get. ha ha. But I still love it!
Cheers,
Chris

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;the car placed first the year before, with a different driver...

Yes, but not a single suspension part was the same when I drove it. Believe me, the car was quite alot easier to drive after I changed it a little. But Jason still ran a front stress bar when he won the year before in the same car.
Chris

 

I hear yah, and I was just posting what I have heard/learned, It could be down to a diffenrce in road race or autocross setups, as even the CRX guy I know that autorcorss also drives on track, the rest are road racers and don't seem to run a front strut tower bar so go figure. As always I am searching for more knowledge, from what I have gather around here in the road race forum most thing that on a doulbe wish bone setup a strut tower bar is not a huge differnce maker when it comes to how a car handels, of course who knows it could be setup dependent.

 

Chris, my 89 CRX is obviously set up for a different activity so this might be entirely unapplicable. We removed the ST bar from my CRX back in October last year. We have run 8 races on it so far and honestly can not tell any difference in the car's handling. I really would be hard pressed to come up with a reason to add it back at this point as the car seems to do fine without. BUT, this of course is a very different application (being higher speed turns, probably more load to the rears, hotter tires, etc ...) than autocross setups.

BTW: its an Autodesings bar - so maybe it is crap to begin with and that is why there was no effect from its removal. I would be very hard pressed however to purchase a replacement (unless this breaks as it is my motor hoist now ).


Modified by phat-S at 9:31 AM 4/25/2003

 

cool..... i'll have to give it a try. Maybe the rollcage has made the car more rigid? Do they still allow the 2 tubes to run to the firewall? Maybe that's helping too. You definitely have me curious. I'm gonna try running with and without it and see what I can feel. Did I mention I love this stuff?
Chris

 

Yes, its and 8pt welded cage with the 7th and 8th point attached to the firewall.

 

Hey Chris!

I'll agree with you on the addition of the strut bar. I upgraded my slim GS-R bar to the 400lbs beefy mugen bar and noticed a definite change in the front of the car. I can't guarentee it was faster but what I did notice was it far easier to consistently place the front of the car in a turn.

I remember a GRM article like 4-5 years ago where they did testing on a CRX (slalom and some other autox stuff)... and the car WAS faster without the bar. They described it as the front being too tight. So maybe it was a compliance issue. I wish I had the old article.

Needless to say I can't imagine that the generalization that any one mod is universally good can be applied to all chasis. After all... they are different!