I'm looking for recommendations for 90 si hb civic spring rates the plan is koni yellows, ground control coil overs, 22mm rear sway bar, stock 19mm front sway bar. The car will be mostly used for SCCA racing STS class, comfort is not a big factor I want to make the car handle. Any suggestions for spring rates?

 

what you have listed sounds kewl.... I myself have H&R coilovers and love them... If you dont care about ride comfort get some Eibach 1200lbs spring rate springs with some nice Koni yellow adjustables or Bilsteins...

 

That's exactly what I have right now but have the standard spring rate that whatever ground control have to match the Koni yellows. I autocross as well, street modified and so far so good. Replacing the springs on the coilovers later on is not a problem anyway but the standard spring rate seems to work fine.

 

Check out http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/ChrisTech.htm
It gives specs on last years national winning STS Civic. I'm planning on running my Civic in STS also, but am a little hesitant on running the spring rates he used (400f/450r IIRC) because my car is a daily driver in pot holed Northern Ohio. If I knew the stock spring rates it would be a little easier to decide, but I can't seem to find those anywhere. Anyways, your existing set-up is similar to his, so going with his spring rates probably wouldn't be too far off.

 

question while we are on suspension
i have a 91 hatch that is awaiting a transplant
when i put 91 integra knuckles/brakes and integra ls axles

should i use different struts? or should i get konis for the 91 hatch?

 

spring rates dempend on a few factors. both chris schenefield and i are on street tires, so 400 is about the most u want to run. i run 300r with a big rear bar and it works well. if ur autoxing and on r's then u can run considerably stiffer. also if you have a swap, ull have to adjust for the weight. also, if ur running off the shelf shocks, 400 is the most u realy want to go although peopel run real stiff (1200) and say the koni will take it. and it will, btu i think it will need to have a rebuild sooner. another factor is where u live. if ur in florida or cali or somewhere with nice smoothe streets, then u can run real stiff and it wont be harsh, but if u live in ny (im on long island and drive through the city to go to events sometimes) then ull want to take it easy with the spring rate and be sute there dampend properly.

-spenc

 

yah i was thinking of using the "Shelf" ground controls with some Koni's..but are KYB AGX's or Tokicko Illumina's just as good? I hear so many people use the GC/Koni combo....but what gives the Koni's such an advantage?? The reason why i ask is because they're pretty pricey. I run in SM too....so i need an advantage over them damn WRX's!

 

I ran Tokico's for along time on two CRX's and my Civic. Then I drove a nationals winning CRX on Koni's. I can't say exactly what's different, but the difference is amazing! I bought Koni's the very next day and I'll never run anything else, at least not on an '88-'91 Civic/CRX.
Of course it's difficult to quantify since every autocross course is different, but I can say this: When I was running the Tokicos, I ran against a friend of mine in a very similar car and we were usually neck and neck for the win. After I switched to Koni's, I beat him in every race the rest of the year by 1-2 full seconds. Now, how much of that was the Koni's and how much of it was just that they fit my driving style I don't know, but that is what happened. The biggest difference I saw was that with the Tokico's I had to feather the throttle out of turns to prevent wheel spin, and that was running them full soft in the front. In contrast, I can run the Koni's full hard in the front (increasing responsiveness) and have to try real hard to break a tire loose. It also allowed me to run higher pressures on my R1's also increasing responsiveness.
I'm sure somebody else can tell you the technical differences, but from the driver's seat I can tell you that it's money well spent.
Jim


[Modified by Bravenrace, 3:39 PM 2/18/2003]

 

Bravenrace...thanks fer the info! VERY helpful...I guess the choice is how much money i want to spend now...since youve observed the Koni's are so much better than those Tockico's. (Ill take your word fer it! ) As for the "Redshift" STS civic those spring rates he uses....you can just specify Ground control to send 400f/450r spring rates?? or is that a custom deal..Cuz those numbers sound nice and solid for an autox.

I am running H&R races right now and i have NO idea what the spring rates...are theyre just stiff...


[Modified by JOEY F., 4:11 PM 2/18/2003]

 

Yeah when call GC to order you can specify any spring rates you want, as far as I know there's no difference in cost.

 

Yeah. like LRmike2 said. Although I believe they have off the shelf packages, you can specify any spring rates they carry and I dont' think it's any additional cost.
I'm thinking of going with 350/400 myself, just so I can better handle the rough roads here and because my Koni's are a little worn and I'm not sure if they'll handle the higher rates. Good luck!

 

Not to put this thread into OT, but Bravenrace, what kind of camber set up did you have? As I've mentioned on my reply, I'm also using GC/Koni/ST combo and besides my ingalls rear camber kit (set to 0), I have yet to tinker with my front camber.

 

With what car?
My current car is not yet set up for STS. I used to run it in stock class. When I aligned it I was surprised to find out that it had about 1.75 deg negative in the front, and about .75 in the back. This was with a stock suspension, except for the Koni's. That's a lot more negative camber than I've measured in my past Honda's, I coudl not identify why it had it, and I think it helped my times significantly. For STS, I'm going to first install the coil overs and then see what I have. I suspect that I'll have enough negative camber that I'll have to add a camber kit to get it set so I don't wear out my tires on the street. That, of course, probably won't be optimal for autocrossing. I don't know if that answered your question or not, but hopefully it did.
Jim

 

Sorry Jim, i must have mistaken you with someone else. I thought you had a fully prepared autocross hatch. But from what I've heard, zero and even slightly positive rear camber will help turn the wheels over to give the rear an easier way of turning/drifting. Thanks anyway.

 

No problem. Mine will be fully built by the time our autox season starts (3rd week in April), but right now we have a foot of snow on the ground and I drive this car everyday, so I'm not in a hurry to put nice new shiny parts on it! I hear what you're saying about rear camber, but at least in its stock form, my car is very neutral. In STS I'll be running a large rear sway bar and a tiny HF front bar, so I'm hoping that in combination with rear-biased spring rates the car will turn in very well, even with the negative camber in the rear.
For reference, last year I ran an ITA Civic in CSP. It had 450f/650r (or sometimes 850r)coil overs with re-valved Koni's, a 22mm rear bar, the stock si front bar, and whatever camber resulted (visually it was significantly negative front and rear). This car works very well on a track, but had quite a bit of oversteer on most autox courses. We even disconnected the rear bar a couple times and it improved the handling. My thinking is that the tighter turns in an autox course will induce oversteer more easily than on a road course. I could even get major oversteer out of my stock Civic just by how varying my line and braking technique. Anyways, I think a lot of it comes down to what a particular driver likes. The ITA car wasn't mine, and I would have probably set it up different if it was soley an autox car.

 

Selecting the spring rates is no problem, I ordered mine yesterday, there's no additional expense. If you're in a hurry as I was, don't wait until the last minute if you're ordering koni yellows from them, they don't stock them, it takes a few extra days for them to get them and assemble.

I'm leaning a little to the right now too, emptied my wallet.

Anybody know any super great deals on some 15x7 4x100's, I don't care if they are pink and purple, as long as they are real cheap, and not unreal heavy.

 

I saw one on the classifieds section...Si powdercoated wheels and tires ($400).