Alright, this is slowlow4thgen from hondasociety.com for those that parooze both boards, this board seems to have more hardcore motor tuning people so i'm posting this here. recently v4lu3s (willie) & i installed a v-afc in the car, and it was fine for a few days, but today it started idleing horredly, like 430rpm's, terrible.

now prior to v-afc install i was throwing a Code 41 - Oxygen sensor heater, no biggie. after it started acting like this today i pulled code's again, 4 cel's total, 3 new ones + the code 41, those were:
E-Code 3 - Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor
E-Code 21 - Variable Valve Timing solenoid valve
E-Code 22 - Variable Valve Timing pressure switch

now i'm alright w/ engine diagnosis and whatnot, but a/f tuning is a new thing for me, so i'm not sure what's causing all these cel's to light, i'm gonna post up my current v-afc settings as of this evening, i need some ideas on what's causing these cel's, and how to correct them. thanx in advance to the motor junkies who are about to dig through all my specs...

________________________________________________
Wide Open Throttle:
LVT 1 = -1 @ 1000
LVT 2 = -1 @ 1500
LVT 3 = -2 @ 2000
LVT 4 = -2 @ 2200
LVT 5 = -2 @ 2400
LVT 6 = -2 @ 2600
LVT 7 = -2 @ 2800
LVT 8 = -1 @ 3000

HVT 1 = -2 @ 1000
HVT 2 = -2 @ 1500
HVT 3 = -2 @ 2000
HVT 4 = -2 @ 2200
HVT 5 = -2 @ 2400
HVT 6 = -2 @ 2600
HVT 7 = -1 @ 2800
HVT 8 = -1 @ 3000
________________________________________________
Narrow Throttle:
LVT 1 = -1 @ 1000
LVT 2 = -1 @ 1500
LVT 3 = -1 @ 2000
LVT 4 = -2 @ 2200
LVT 5 = -2 @ 2400
LVT 6 = -2 @ 2600
LVT 7 = -2 @ 2800
LVT 8 = -2 @ 3000

HVT 1 = -2 @ 1000
HVT 2 = -2 @ 1500
HVT 3 = -2 @ 2000
HVT 4 = -2 @ 2200
HVT 5 = -2 @ 2400
HVT 6 = -2 @ 2600
HVT 7 = -1 @ 2800
HVT 8 = -1 @ 3000
________________________________________________
V/T Cnt:
L->H = 3100
H->L = 3000
________________________________________________
V/T Unmt:
Hi<<L: +-0%
Lo<<H: +-0%
________________________________________________
Throttle:
Lo: 10%
Hi: 52%
________________________________________________
Nep: LvT
Ne 1: 1000
Ne 2: 1500
Ne 3: 2000
Ne 4: 2200
Ne 5: 2400
Ne 6: 2600
Ne 7: 2800
Ne 8: 3000
________________________________________________
Nep: HvT
Ne 1: 3100
Ne 2: 3500
Ne 3: 4500
Ne 4: 5000
Ne 5: 5400
Ne 6: 5800
Ne 7: 6200
Ne 8: 6500
________________________________________________
Sensor Check: (Car Is Off)
Pres: 2.900v - 2.905v
Throttle: .455v - .460v closed
4.540v - 4.545v wide open
CDS: 5.000v - 5.005v
________________________________________________
Grph Scl:
Pr: 760mmHg
Ne: 7000rpm
Cr: +- 3%
________________________________________________
Car: Throttle:
4cyl (Arrow Toward Top Right)
________________________________________________
Sens. No
In: 01
Out: 01
________________________________________________

suggestions can be posted here, or e-mail me @ guystrtrcr18@hotmail.com, doesn't matter i'll be checkin both.. thanks for reading ~ j

 

MAP sensor settings on my SAFC:

IN 6 OUT 6, try that.

 

Double check your install your connections and make sure the wires spliced into properly everything next to your settings in bold is a correction also what mods do you have? you shouldnt be running any negative fuel adjustments i would think with boltons. your rpm points look oddly picked to me as well.. try my settings..
i dont remember what the HVT and LVT are at the moment but try using this

no changes below 3500 as you wont be in the new VTEC point and thus running on the stock map. the VAFC will auto bump your fuel up and down .01 +/- between your RPM points put the extra RPM points anywhere outside of the ones i gave you and leave them to a 0+/- change. ill get full settings tommorow. which can be used as an approximation untill a dyno is avail for a f22b1 accord with i/h/e w/ or without a cat.

+2% 3500
+1% 4000
+0% 5200


edit: the setting of 1in and 1out sens is giving you CEL's but running the negative fuel correction and no correction after the new VTEC point will damage something.

edit2: you said it worked for a few days and then started not working and or causing a bad idle this says to me you installed it wrong the grounds are improperly arranged and or the intialize setting is stuck on.
[Modified by ArchAngel Sabastian, 9:41 PM 12/19/2002]


[Modified by ArchAngel Sabastian, 9:43 PM 12/19/2002]

 

now i was told oem vtec changeover was 2300 lo>hi, so in theory altering the vtec crossover to a higher point will make my 60ft times higher, but my mid-range kick should be greater?

i'm using stock 94 ex f22 motor, it's got dc 4-2-1 header, racing cat, removed resonator, muffler (woo hoo i know), cold air intake, ngk wires and plugs, and the v-afc.

soon the car will be wearing aem power pullies, and a intake manifold that's been ported & polished, portmatched to head, knife edged the intake runners, and removed all imperfections on inside, as well as a ported and polished throttle bodie that had the internal section rifled.

I'll change the sens no. settings and see if that does the trick....

 

the VTEC lo to hi cam crossover point has been debated to death and no car will get peak power from a vafc without a dyno you can use the 5200 RPM and or the 2300-3100 RPM crossover whichever you choose to believe the settings i gave will yield power off a dyno and not cause damage to the motor.

 

well a dyno tune will be in the works for this mid-january

i set my tuning points according to my current changeover (3000-3100), and i will never take the car past 7k in rpm's, so i set the adjustment points to where i could make the most tuning flexibility out of the powerband i plan on using. that's why they are set the way they are.

you listed off 3 set points, if it's not to much trouble could you post up your full settings tommorow? i'd like to give them a try if it's alright with you.

 

Edit: Saw I Left The Low VTEC RPM Points In The High VTEC Spots, Here's The Right Data Sheet:

Here's My Current V-AFC Settings:
________________________________________________
Wide Open Throttle:
LVT 1 = -1 @ 1000
LVT 2 = -1 @ 1500
LVT 3 = -2 @ 2000
LVT 4 = -2 @ 2200
LVT 5 = -2 @ 2400
LVT 6 = -2 @ 2600
LVT 7 = -2 @ 2800
LVT 8 = -1 @ 3000

HVT 1 = -2 @ 3100
HVT 2 = -2 @ 3500
HVT 3 = -2 @ 4500
HVT 4 = -2 @ 5000
HVT 5 = -2 @ 5400
HVT 6 = -2 @ 5800
HVT 7 = -1 @ 6200
HVT 8 = -1 @ 6500
________________________________________________
Narrow Throttle:
LVT 1 = -1 @ 1000
LVT 2 = -1 @ 1500
LVT 3 = -1 @ 2000
LVT 4 = -2 @ 2200
LVT 5 = -2 @ 2400
LVT 6 = -2 @ 2600
LVT 7 = -2 @ 2800
LVT 8 = -2 @ 3000

HVT 1 = -2 @ 3100
HVT 2 = -2 @ 3500
HVT 3 = -2 @ 4500
HVT 4 = -2 @ 5000
HVT 5 = -2 @ 5400
HVT 6 = -2 @ 5800
HVT 7 = -1 @ 6200
HVT 8 = -1 @ 6500
________________________________________________
V/T Cnt:
L->H = 3100 (try 3500 tommorow)
H->L = 3000 (try 3400 tommorow)
________________________________________________


________________________________________________
V/T Unmt:
Hi<<L: +-0%
Lo<<H: +-0%
________________________________________________
Throttle:
Lo: 10% (will try 74% tommorow)
Hi: 52% (will try 75% tommorow)
________________________________________________
Nep: LvT
Ne 1: 1000
Ne 2: 1500
Ne 3: 2000
Ne 4: 2200
Ne 5: 2400
Ne 6: 2600
Ne 7: 2800
Ne 8: 3000
________________________________________________
Nep: HvT
Ne 1: 3100
Ne 2: 3500
Ne 3: 4500
Ne 4: 5000
Ne 5: 5400
Ne 6: 5800
Ne 7: 6200
Ne 8: 6500
________________________________________________
Sensor Check: (Car Is Off)
Pres: 2.900v - 2.905v
Throttle: .455v - .460v closed
4.540v - 4.545v wide open
CDS: 5.000v - 5.005v
________________________________________________
Grph Scl:
Pr: 760mmHg
Ne: 7000rpm
Cr: +- 3%
________________________________________________
Car: Throttle:
4cyl (Arrow Toward Top Right)
________________________________________________
Sens. No
In: 01 (change to 06 tommorow)
Out: 01 (change to 06 tommorow)

and the reason i'm running lean settings across the board is that i was told that honda's as a whole like to run rich to be on the safe side, so by leaning out across the board you better achieve the 50/50 perfect air ratio.

which brings me to another point, how accurate are the autometer a/f gauges, does it reflect changes in real time? it may be time for me to acquire one if it's a worthwhile product

 

i listed 3 cuz basically thats all you need to figure it out but here you go, also i dont run LVT corrections because there is no need for a correction on the low cam side. i will post general settings.


Corrections
Wide Open Throttle:

HVT 1 = +2 @ 3500
HVT 2 = +2 @ 3800
HVT 3 = +2 @ 4000
HVT 4 = +1 @ 4100
HVT 5 = +1 @ 4500
HVT 6 = +1 @ 5000
HVT 7 = +1 @ 5200
HVT 8 = +0 @ 5300
________________________________________________
Narrow Throttle:

HVT 1 = +2 @ 3500
HVT 2 = +1 @ 3800
HVT 3 = +1 @ 4000
HVT 4 = +1 @ 4100
HVT 5 = +1 @ 4500
HVT 6 = +0 @ 5000
HVT 7 = +0 @ 5200
HVT 8 = +0 @ 5300
________________________________________________
Nep: HvT

Ne 1: 3500
Ne 2: 3800
Ne 3: 4000
Ne 4: 4100
Ne 5: 4500
Ne 6: 5000
Ne 7: 5200
Ne 8: 5300


[Modified by ArchAngel Sabastian, 2:19 AM 12/20/2002]

 

stock type o2 sensors dont display very acurate air/fuel readings they can help you somewhat but it wont give you a perfect reading.

 

Nor do you want a 50/50 ratio as he posted above.

 

I posted a respone on HS ... but this is my settings.

Okay here are my settings, this is what was done after getting my car on the dyno and tuning.


VTEC Changeover:
Low -> Hi = 3100
Hi -> Low = 3000


Wide Throttle
LVT

1k -3
2k -6
3k -9
4k -10
5k -7
5.5k -7
6k -7
6.5k -7

HVT

4k -5
4.5k -10
5k -10
5.5k -9
6k -8
7k -7
8k +2
9k +2

Th Point

Lo 15% Hi 70%

For the narrow throttle settings, nothing has changed .. it is 0 all accross.

With my mods ... after dyno tuning, I was putting 139hp and 140tq to the wheels

My in and out is set at 6 as well ....

 

and this was done on a dyno with a wide band o2 sensor, so .. don't freak about my a/f settings

 

What mods do you have?

 

Greddy EVO
Greddy Header (HPC Coated)
B&M FPR
AEM CAI
SKUNK2 CAM Gear (set at -2 degrees)
Bored out TB
High Flow Cat
VAFC

I doubt this stuff helps .. but ...
Quiafe LSD
ACT HDSS Clutch
Apexi WS Coilovers
S/T Rear Sway Bar
Neuspeed Strut Tower Bar

then I have a bunch of cosmetic (aka Rice) stuff done to my car heh.

 

i'm sure ya'll can see why this is confusing now, if you look @ the 2 tuning setups you guys are running they're as different as night and day lol.

i guess i'll try both and see what the butt dyno tells me.

 

To be honest, the best bet is to take it to a dyno with a wide band o2 sensor .. to get it properly tuned correctly.

 

Agreed. Without wideband tuning, the VAFC is purely aesthetic (harmfull if played with).

Still trying to figure out why youre even concerned with the VAFC when youve got CELs.


[Modified by niedejb, 3:43 PM 12/20/2002]

 

i suspect the v-afc to be causing the cel's, that's why.

 

I suspect you installed it?

 

willie did, v4lue3.

we just re-did the connections on the v-afc last night for the v-tec wiring, haven't throw a cell yet, hopefully won't again