Ok so I just put in a new distributor cap and rotor, and was doing about 70 on the freeway, when all power stopped. After getting it home I pulled the cap and noticed the rotor not turning. Pulled the valve cover, and the timing belt turns the cam pulley, but the cam is not turning. From what I've read, bent valves are likely. I'm sure there must be other posts regarding this, but I haven't been able to find them. Please advise, or send me to the previous posts if possible. Many thanks and gratitude for this forum!

 

At this point, get a replacement used heard and hope the engine isn't damaged as well.

Weigh the costs before doing anything, as even a whole engine is only about $500.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-2-2L...Cclp%3A2334524

 

Thanks. Off to the boneyard tomorrow.

 

I've said this before, but the great thing at this age is there is usually a lot of stuff available in the junkyard, so good thinking, grab just the heads if you want and slap it on, cross fingers, and if it's worse then replace the whole thing.

If you go and pick it yourself, it can be really cheap, the heads for my car are about $50 from the local yard.

Update us when you make progress.

 

Thanks - it's raining like hell here, so this may take awhile. I've been watching vids on how to remove the head. I suppose the next question I'm going to have is: "how to install the replacement head so that the timing belt, distributor, and pistons are in the correct position. Don't want to bend the valves after all this work. Many thanks!

BTW, there's a guy with a 2.2l for sale locally - $300. I'm wondering if it might be less work to pull the engine and tranny, remove/replace tranny, and drop it in?

 

In my opinion, which is just an opinion, nothing more, I found replacing the engine in this car to be quite straightforward. I don't know that it's faster than replacing the heads, but it is not very tricky. I wrote about it before, the short version is you remove the hood, slowly unwrap and unplug all the sensors, attach and engine hoist to the top, disconnect the axles, detach all the motor and transmission mounts, disconnect the steering, and pull it out all together. Quite obviously, I am oversimplifying, but overall this is an engine bay friendly to removal of the 4 cylinder and transmission. Other than an engine hoist, you can do everything else with "normal" tools in the garage. tons of 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 17mm bolts, a lot of clips to work free with a flat head screwdriver.

With all that, it's technically harder than a head replacement, but in terms of downtime, I suspect the difference is minimal. All alone, and having never done a Honda Accord before, I did it alone in about 7 days, working on it about 4-6 hours a day, from beginning to end. I spent a day getting the engine hoist in that timeframe, and I did need a cheap impact to get the axle nuts off, the rest being the swap itself and looking at the two engines to check for differences (in my case, the crank belt pulley was an inch larger than the origina, requiring a different belt but the rest was the same).

I guess it depends on your comfort level, I've seen people balk at an engine replacement, thinking it's much much harder, so they won't do it. Since it's like for like, the computer doesn't need any adjustment, everything just fits right back in place.

I will add this: if you do this, strongly consider if there is anything else you might want to do while the engine is out. I replaced all my motor mounts, because then it was super easy and nothing in the way. I also took all the transmission solenoids off and cleaned then, because again, easy since it's just on the floor. finally, I replaced several gaskets on the back of the engine since it took 15 minutes and nothing in the way.

 

Thanks for taking the time to send me your educated opinion. I have replaced engines in a few old cars, and I put the transmission in this one (speed sensor band was broken inside tranny, and CEL was on). There's an engine about 50 miles from here - the seller says it has 120k on it. I'm weighing the differences between replacing the head, dealing with getting the timing set, etc. or just swapping the whole engine. A bit scared I might be getting into a whole different set of problems if the seller (private party) isn't forthcoming about issues with the replacement. Again, I can't thank you enough for the help.

 

I suppose the question is "why did this engine come out of the car?" would be helpful if he can provide it. In my case when I sold the old engine, it had 180,000 miles on it and although it seemed to run ok, I was getting what I believed to be oil in the radiator. Rather than try to determine if it was a head leak, a porous block or something else, I simply replaced the engine. Since I was able to score and engine and transmission from a JDM shop together, I swapped the whole thing out. I explained when selling it the transmission was flawless but the engine was not, however it would run fine if someone needed it desperately for a while and should run another 10,000 miles easily. Of course, I only sold it off for about $125. The buyer needed it because he was in the exact situation where his engine was blown and he needed something to last for about 3-6 months until he got a new car. This worked out well for the both of us.

As you said above, I did not want to dink around with setting and breaking parts, getting every aligned when I could swap quickly instead for about the same time and money.

Of course, you can do a few things to check it such as take the valve covers off and inspect for sludge and broken parts. You can also take a big breaker bar, pull the spark plaugs and rotate it at the crank to listen for noises and hear it rotate cleanly and fairly quietly.

You can then take it home and replace all the gaskets that might worry you, as I mentioned above but also the valve cover gasket, the oil pan gasket, replace the spark plugs, and while the oil pan gasket is off, look up inside for anything that seems off, damaged, scratched up, or missing.

If you don't trust the local person, eBay can be your friend as those guys have a rep rating they want to maintain and offer a warranty often as well.

Good luck.

 

I know it's not the same year, but here is my more detailed report on swapping the engine, if it helps:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...thers-3345715/

I'm sure there are others, just thought this could get you thinking about tools you have and what you might need.

 

Wow! That is an impressive JDM story. The tranny on my engine is a JDM. I put it in when I bought the car, as the CEL was on, due to a broken speed sensor band in the tranny.

The fellow I bought the engine from told me the car sat for quite awhile without being registered, and when it came to his buddy's wrecking yard (where he gets the engines/trannies in his storage locker), there was a huge DMV bill due, so he parted it out. He said it ran smooth, and that he drove it for awhile. He also said "it's a good motor, otherwise I wouldn't have it".
So, to give him the benefit of the doubt, I am going to clean it, change timing belt (maybe all belts), water pump, egr ports, etc. and roll the dice.
I know I will need that big socket for the wheels. O'Reilly's or Autozone should have it. Downloaded and printed a pdf of "engine removal/installation" instructions from the shop manual. Got the green light from my brother, who (only the good lord knows why) wants to do an engine replacement. It's fun. Like building a model when you were a kid. Only now, when you are finished, it will transport you! I am optimistic that it will turn out to be a fun and memorable journey.
Thanks for your expertise on the path!

 

Cheapest place I found to get the big (I think it's 36mm?) socket is from Harbor Freight, I was able to get a whole set of "big" sockets from 19mm to something like 60mm for under $50 (I'm sure you know there are always sales and coupons and such).

And right, change timing belt, valve cover and oil pan gaskets, things on the back of the engine like EGR and such things that come off easily and can be replaced, don't forget axle gaskets (those seem to dry out when the engine is out and lying around), Basically, if you go around that engine and can get it off easily, replace the gaskets. Check the fuel injectors to make sure the rubber rings seem ok or swap over yours from the current engine. Also double check the intake and exhaust manifolds that they are correct, as there are california versions that you don't want on there unless this is a california car and requires the ULEV setup.

Around the engine hoist, make sure you get a leveler if it doesn't come with it, as the easiest way out and in is to tilt the engine in one direction and then the other to get past areas like around the windshield, the drivers side of the engine bay items like steering and such. I'm sure without it you can get it out, but it's much much easier with it. Again, Harbor Freight was inexpensive but craigslist always seems to have one for sale inexpensively.

I also noticed that there was some differences in the alternator bracket and air conditioning bracket. In one case, it was close enough, but on the other one I had to switch the bracket from the original to the replacement. Might have been variances in years or build locations, I don't know, but simply things to keep an eye on.

And make sure to replace the motor mounts, especially the one up against the firewall if nothing else, as it is a real pain in the *** to replace normally. You will see it has vacuum hose off of it, and is 5 seconds to do with the car out. All others you could wait because they are nowhere near as hard to replace with the engine in. Good luck.

Post as you go, people love build threads! take picture, make a video, etc. I didn't have a helper, so doing pictures was much more difficult.

 

Wow! Thank you very much! Great info. You are an angel.

I have more work to do on the donor than I thought. Will try to get pix and story together. Like you said, not easy to do when you're alone. Hoping my brother will come by for the actual swap, and he's great with the camera.

Going in...when the rain stops.

 

Would you recommend changing the water pump as well? Do you have a timing belt/water pump kit you recommend? Thanks!

 

I picked up my timing belt/water pump kit from RockAuto. I believe it was the Aisin kit, which had water pump and timing kit together.
It was around $100 for all the parts from them.

 

Ok I believe the job is finished, for now. Whew. I'll be sore for awhile. The cuts on my arms and hands will heal up in time.

Unfortunately, I did not get video or pics. That would've added hours to the day, and we (my brother and I) spent 14 hours swapping the engine without stopping for lunch or dinner. There were plenty of cocktails after we got the four main motor mount bolts in, rest assured. I will try to convey the event in lieu of video.

As I think I mentioned, I found an engine for $300. Rental yards want $45 a day for an engine hoist, and I needed it for a week, so I couldn't justify it for a $300 engine. Ran an ad on NextDoor, and found a guy who was willing to loan me his engine hoist for as long as I needed it free of charge. There are nice people out there. Marcos is an angel.

I went to replace the timing belt and water pump, but the pump was Aisin, and the belt was Gates, so I figure they'd been done already. I pulled off the rocker arms and replaced the spark plug tube o-rings, as well as the valve cover gasket and spark plug tube gaskets (which I had recently replaced on the old engine, so I just retrieved them). The spark plug tubes were full of oil. Adjusted valves (Eric The Car Guy has a video on this for Honda valves, but it's pretty much the way my grandfather taught me. He was a mechanic at Studebaker. Used to drive cars around the Indianapolis 500 Brickyard). Tightened up timing belt tensioner. New plugs, cap & rotor. Wires from the old motor. Changed oil of course - full synthetic 5-30 for Hondas. Saved the coolant and Honda tranny fluid.

After getting the old motor out, we took the tranny off and put it on the donor motor, but the holes in the flywheel didn't line up. I then remembered back when I bought the tranny at JDM, and the guy gave me another flywheel. He said I would need to change it out because it's different in Japan. I think that's what he said. The tranny bolted right on - I didn't need his extra flywheel. I suspect it may have to do with manual vs. automatic trannies, but I'm sure a member of this forum will straighten that out. Anyway, the flywheel on the donor motor is 10.5" in diameter, and the flywheel on the old motor is 11". Now we were off to buy a 17mm 12-point socket. That's 2 10.5" Honda flywheels I've chucked. We made 3 attempts at attaching the tranny before success.
BTW - Using Autozone loaner tools is the ticket - but make sure they physically check stock while you're on the phone with them. I drove all over the east bay to the "next closest store" to find some of these tools, which are "in stock" according to their computer screen, but when they go to get the tool, there is none. Frustrating moments ensued. Venting same frustration on an Autozone employee ensued. (I loaned out 5 tools from them: 24" 1/2" breaker bar, Ball joint separator, 36mm socket [I got the whole set of 5], Crank pulley holder (crank pulley bolt socket goes through the middle of this tool), and finally, a torque wrench. I couldn't find mine). Here's the thing: While O'Reilly's will loan you tools for 48 hours, Autozone gives them to you for 90 DAYS!
The crank pulley bolt was so tight I had to go to a local shop and pay $10 for them to crack it, and even then, the mechanic had to go back to his sockets/tool kit 3 times before he was able to bust it loose. All that effort just to get the plastic cover off to do the timing belt/water pump, which I decided not to do. Perhaps I should've, but I prolly won't keep this car for more than a couple years.
So we got the 12-point socket and switched the flywheels, eventually got the tranny to spline, and bolted her up and dropped her in. This did not go well, as my brother tried to assemble the right (tranny) motor mount while we were positioning the engine. This situation somehow worsened, where the engine/tranny was wedged into the engine compartment at an angle, and for some time we were unable to lift or lower the engine. We did not have a chain leveler on the hoist. In fact, we were using the seat belt that came with the donor engine. We were able to slide it back and forth a bit to change the lift angle, but it was not working, so we replaced it with chain, and in a few minutes, while we rocked it to and fro, it suddenly fell into almost perfect position with a great clunk. We stared at each other momentarily as if we had witnessed the work of the hand of God. It was hour 13. Another hour of futzing with the hoist up and down and we were able to get the main bolts of the mounts in. After that, I was left for a few days of putting everything back together.
*Days later* It took a few cranks, but as soon as the gas came in, it started right up. After about 10 minutes of idling very nicely, the temp gauge started climbing. It was late, so I thought about it all night. I didn't notice the fan go on but the temp gauge was climbing. Watched a few videos on bleeding the cooling system (Eric The Car Guy has good video on this for old Hondas), which I had already done once. The next morning, I bled the system again and got more air out. Started it up again, and this time, no overheating. Thermostat opened (lower radiator hose gets hot awhile after upper radiator hose is hot), fan came on. Checking coolant levels and keeping an eye on the temp gauge. Looks good.
Got $32 for the old motor at the metal recyclers. Took the hoist back to Marcos, with a bottle of rum. I'm getting too old for this.

Thank you for your time and kind assistance 99stockcivic and Honda-Tech.com !! THANK YOU!!

 

Remember I mentioned a leveler? That little bit when bringing it in it helps a lot.

Great job, man!

Now just make sure to drive it around 200 miles, then go all over the car to see what might still be loose. You will usually find the engine has settleed a tiny bit, so motor mount bolts, hose clamps, trans brackets, power steering, etc, all could possible need a couple turns to tighten it up. This is also just me, but because I just wasn't sure how long the car/engine/trans had sat, I changed all the fluids again around that 200 miles mark (oil, trans, radiator) to make sure there wasn't any sludge or weird stuff appearing. And make sure the axle seals aren't leaking or anything on the back of the engine.

Again, nice work and great resourcefulness! Wish I had been there to see it.

 

Quick ReplyYes a leveler would've been nice. Also a floor jack.

The trans was on the old motor, so it has been used until a couple weeks ago. I think the seals are ok. I'll keep an eye on the oil. If it gets real dirty in the first 200 miles, I'll change it again. Power steering belt wasn't tight enough to turn the engine over without spark plugs, so I tightened it up.

I wish you had been there as well - might've saved us knuckleheads a few hours work.

Again, can't thank you enough for your time and advice.

All the best! Joe

 

Always interesting to read about a project like this. Congrats the OP accomplishing this task that not many would take on. Interesting reading about what the whole project entailed, such as driving to a store that supposedly had something in stock but did not. And jeez - not stopping for lunch or dinner for 14 hours! It's great having others here like 99stockcivic who have done the challenging and difficult task, and has offered great advice on other situations.