Hey guys, I have a buddy who is willing to lend me a Hondata s300 ecu for dyno, is it possible to have the map the tuner creates put onto a chrome ecu with some additional tuning after the transfer? I have tried finding the right thread but I keep seeing mixed results. Does anyone know if this will work? I currently have a p28 chipped ecu with chrome and just want to save some money as long as it is possible and not going to cause any harm to my engine.

 

There is not a way to convert a Hondata s300 (.skl) calibration to a CRomE (.bin) type file that I am aware of. Forget that "trying to save some money" silliness that you mentioned... the engine management is the MOST IMPORTANT part of a quality build... this is not the area that you should skimp. Sell some of your quality engine parts and get the VERY AFFORDABLE Hondata s300.

 

hate to be harsh but....if you can't afford to properly mod the car, keep it stock. Everyone thinks it's cheap and easy until they realize it costs more than just a few hundred bucks and they can't afford supportive mods

 

Okay wtf.

there is nothing wrong with chips. Unless you are tuning yourself or your tuner requests it, then s300 is a waste of cash.

Honda Tuning Suite is free and better than Crome. Maybe just have the tuner use that. Unfortunately I won't work with the s300 emulator.

There is a few ways to convert maps..but it won't necessarily give you the best results. Even if you duplicate all of the fuel and ignition tables, you have to also make sure all the scalars are correct, copy any corrections, etc.

Another option is reading the map off the s300 with a chip burner and then just flashing that bin, then it would still be a Hondata based rom instead of your maps copied into a Crome rom.

Regardless I HIGHLY recommend HTS (Honda Tuning Suite) over Crome, it's the official continuation of eCtune and is completely free; does everything gold does but free. Works with Demon, Ostrich, HR emulator, and saves burnable BINs.

Don't let anyone talk you into spending money on a Hondata unless you are going to actually use it and change settings or unless it's what your local tuners require; even so I would highly recommend getting a demon2 instead and using HTS, I am confident most tuners will like it, probably like it more than Hondata.

The only statement I agree with is that engine management is important. In this case though, all Hondata does is emulate an eeprom chip so you don't have to burn a chip every change. Also provides some extra features (extra analog logging inputs, etc) but most people don't need those extra features anyway and the Demon2 does the same but has more software options (Crome, Neptune, eCtune, Honda Tuning Suite)

I am a tuner myself and I constantly tell my customers the same thing: If I am the ONLY PERSON as your tuner who will ever make changes then I will tune the car with HTS and my demon2 and burn you a chip when it's ready, then you can sell (or not buy) an s300 and put that money to use elsewhere"

Hondata doesn't make an ecu special or anything though, it emulates an eeprom, with the actual rom being based on the p72 hires rom with some Hondata modifications. Demon2 also emulster an eeprom. Also HondaRulez make an HTS compatible emulator. But the ECU itself only ever "sees" a chip..doesn't matter if you have Hondata or demon2 or a chip..the ecu thinks it's all the same.

The emulators do give you the ability to change things in real time which is nice and basically required for tuning, but as I said I offer to use my demon2 (have an extra for this purpose) in any client car and offer to burn an chip. I am not sure if other tuners will provide this option.

So yes, you could do what you propose. I don't recommend it though really; the best way would be reading the bin with an eeprom or hacking it out of smanagers memory, both are probably against Hondata Terms of Service..second best is manually copy and pasting into another program..would be better to do the same thing with a demon2 and HTS because it can save your bin directly after the tune for burning to chip.

While I could consider adding the ability to import Hondata tunes into HTS, this would likely mainly only import the main maps (there are differences in the ROMs) and not sure I would want to risk pissing off Hondata plus it would suck to maintain and different versions of Hondata would probably **** it up. Not really worth it IMHO when it's relatively easy to start fresh.

Maybe ask your tuner if they have a demon2 or find one to borrow. Get it tuned on that with HTS (only Neptune dealer version will save BINs..HTS better anyway IMHO) then you can get the BIN file and burn it to a chip.

If you're in Canada or willing to come here for a tune than PM me.

 

S300 isn't that affordable. There are competing options that have more and better software options that are cheaper. Remember not everyone is in the USA and some people have to deal with shipping costs, taxes, import duties and exchange rate bullshit when trying to get products like this. Exchange rate aside, an S300 here on average is 20-30% more expensive than advertised.

Saying management is the most important but then saying to use Hondata over Crome like it's a huge jump is silly. If you're going to preach that you may as well tell everyone to use a standalone.

Hondata, Crome, Neptune, eCtune/HTS (bmtune is a pirated rip off with an embedded virus btw, HTS is official ectune continuation) ALL use the factory ecu IN THE EXACT SAME WAY and all the ROMs that they use, the base 66k assembly code that runs on the ecu are all based off the same code base. I would be willing to bet a lot of the original hacked code exists in a Hondata ROM as much as any others..any unhacked code remains Honda OEM and any other hacked code would be features Hondata implemented themselves, which are often available in other implementations with identical or at least vastly similar code.

Simply put all these programs are hex editors. None has any intrinsic value over any other. I admit that Hondata is better than Crome because it's interface is better and it has more development time but it's not fundamentally different in any way. In my opinion HTS/eCtune has the best/most tuner friendly interface.

There is 1 fuzzy byte you have to edit when reading a Hondata ROM for burning. It would be pretty easy to write a Crome plug in to import a Hondata ROM, just have to give in all the right addresses.

 

I just want to say WTF is with people being like this and spreading misinformation. And why does everyone worship Hondata??

I understand the whole having money for supporting mods thing but at the same time if you sit around forever saving money to get everything to do it perfectly the first time then chances are you will never get to the point of having any fun, let one learning from your mistakes.

By that logic we should all just pay professionals to build our cars. The best supporting mod has to.be a warranty right?!

And spreading misinformation..it's not even insanely difficult to either extract and burn a hondata ROM or import ones maps into Crome even if done by hand, let alone impossible.

Also acting like Hondata is magic or somehow akin to a standalone when all it's is a glorified eeprom chip.

OP actually had some sane thinking and his theory is possible and not even nessicarily bad. A Hondata eeprom extracted and burned won't run any different. OP''s theory, which you all stepped on, is exactly what I explain and offer to all my customers to save them $..

if you want ANY generic tuner ANYWHERE to tune it then Hondata might be the best option simply due to its popularity.

if you want to learn how to tune or may want to make changes yourself, Hondata or another emulator like Demon2 is probably the best option

if your tuner is a true Honda nerd then there's a good chance they already have a demon or similar that they can use for your tune and burn you and chip after.

you can pull a bin off an s300 and burn it with slight modification and have it run.

you can manually copy over all your tables from your s300 calibration into a BIN capable program such as HTS, crome or Neptune (only tuner edition can save chips. There is a hack in the wild to convert Neptune maps to bins but likely has a virus as it comes from the same ripping off POS that ripped off ectune to bmtune) and this is basically as illegal as as crack because it goes around Neptune licensing.

but again Honda Tuning Suite is 100% free, works with the most emulators and saves burnable BINs, has basically all the same features as Hondata/Neptune/Crome/eCtune and is again FREE. I was always a huge eCtune fan and that is what I used for tuning for a long time (which also allowed me to be able to burn bins for people instead of forcing them to get an emulator) and loved it. I've been coding my whole life, learning software is easy for me and with that experience and my tuning experience i strongly feel that HTS/eCtune has the best layout/user interface/user experience. I have tuned on Crome, Hondata, Neptune, HTS/eCtune as well as countless standalones (AEM, Haltech, Motec, etc) and OEM flashers (HP tuners, cobb etc)

​​​​just because something isnt as easy as file > import does not mean it is impossible so don't spread that misinformation. Same with Hondata being some sort of godly requirement or your engine will fail. Again I agree management is everything. I don't agree that s300 is everything for management though and again by that logic you should really only be recommending a standalone.

I mean cmon management is everything! Sell.your whole build so you can get a Motec because why would you bother with the stock ecu? It's only 8bit and slow and outdated. A standalone will control everything more accurately which you absolutely need for a good tune because management is everything. /sarcasm

 

[QUOTE=NVturbo;52198581]hate to be harsh but....if you can't afford to properly mod the car, keep it stock. Everyone thinks it's cheap and easy until they realize it costs more than just a few hundred bucks and they can't afford supportive mods[/QUOT​​​​​E]
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I do somewhat agree with this but also as I said if you follow that to the T then you'll never mod your car, have any fun or learn anything by breaking stuff.

That's not to say you should just half *** everything either. While I've learned a ton by doing things the wrong way and ******* up, I've learned a lot by researching how to do it the right way and not **** up.

I do worry about comments like these destroying the community though. I will be the first to admit modding a car can be expensive and there's always costs that aren't accounted for..but I really don't think everything should be like, "you have to pay to play." Even though it's unfortunately somewhat true I don't think we should perpetuate it like that.

ebay turbos are a great example. So many people originally said things like buy a real turbo, it will blow up and wreck your motor before you get around the block, etc. Sure, chinachargers might not be as reliable..they might not be the "right" way to do things..but how much fun do you think they have let people have?

if it wasn't for eBay turbos I might have not gotten into FI and tuning. I've had tons of fun with them and the only one I blew up was completely my fault.
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how is my comment destroying the community? It's people who half-*** their work and show up at the dyno shop expecting the tuner to fix their crappy work. Tuners are paid to tune your car, not work on your car because you are incompetent and/or too cheap to do it right. You claim to be a tuner yet you seem ok with people and their shotty work. But then again, looking at the engine bay of your Integra, I wouldn't even want you to do a simple oil change. Take it how you want. I'm done arguing with people who claim to know what they're doing yet their own personal car shows it all. BTW, quit glorifying those GARBAGE EBAY junk turbos. JUNK IS JUNK no matter how you polish it.

 

I'm not glorifying them, but they are a cheap way to have fun and when installed and maintained properly I haven't seen any issues. Are they comparable to real turbos in [insert category here]? No. But again by this logic, we should all drive expensive/luxury/American? cars because Honda's are "cheap overseas junk".. ****. I'd bet that in reality ebay turbos are at least 90-95% as reliable as any other manufacturer, but I am sure a much larger percentage of people buying ebay turbos are people installing one for the first time..which basically means most failures are user related.

I wonder how many products from "reputable" companies that you would stand by are simply made in China and marked up 2x? Yet I buy the same product without the label directly from the same factory and I'm buying junk..

The stuff you say about ebay turbos is the EXACT SAME THING everyone said about Honda's when they first came to North America.

We aren't discussing shitty builds and I totally agree; all my clients go through a checklist - if anything fails then they fix it or pay me to fix it.

You are somehow trying to imply that an emulator is somehow better than a chip for an end user, this is simply not true. Like I said, one byte modification to the ROM pulled from an S300 will give you a chip that works IDENTICALLY. So how does it benefit the end user to buy an emulator? It doesn't.

​​​​​As for my bay: I am not a fabricator and my project is a work in progress. I am much more interested in functionality and engineering than having a nice tucked bay. I'm not going to spend hours perfecting things when I'm still in the process of changing things and swapping parts. Plus, I'd like to see you stuff as much in there and retain everything as OEM as possible without cutting or drilling the car in any way.

This attitude is the exact problem. Sorry I don't have a $2k custom built and coated manifold. Sorry I don't have a polished $2k turdbo. Sorry I don't have a powder coated or polished valve cover. Sorry that I have only been able to do what my budget has allowed on a car that was left to rot on the street for years. Sorry I don't have a $1k tucked harness.

Like what else is it? Oh my intake piping? Well, that isn't finalized and may be rerouted. Intercooler lines? Again, not finalized; it will be done with AN fittings and nylon braid hose soon but at $15/ft I'm not going to cut any of it until I know for sure everything is where it's going to stay. Other than that my wastegate hoses are neatly bundled together, the wiring I've added goes to a nicely mounted fuse block and relay block with a shrinks loomed concentricly twisted custom harness. Everything else is OEM. Oh wait; I did replace EVERY SINGLE 10mm bolt under the hood with brand new polished bolts.

but hey.. I'll be sure to judge you too right in the middle of a project with your pants down. I didn't come on here to show off unlike most it seems. I don't care what you think of my bay or my car. I enjoy driving it and working on it; nothing else should matter.

Fact is the answers you provided are incorrect and misleading.

1. S300/Demon/etc does nothing other than emulate an eeprom chip; this allows you to change values in real time without having to burn a chip. I am sure the OP is aware of this or else they wouldn't have asked the question they did. It does NOT make your ECU "special", or faster or anything. Do you work for Hondata? If not then explain to me why every car needs one and why a chip isn't suitable for an end user.

2. You CAN INDEED burn a S300 map to a chip, it's not impossible. You can also copy your maps into Crome; I don't recommend it but it's not impossible.

3. What the OP asked is basically standard process at most places that use Neptune/eCtune/HTS. Both Neptune and eCtune offered paid tuner licenses to be able to save bins and burn chips - and guess what? LOTS of tuners bought those licenses so they could use their own emulator/ECU in client cars and burn chips when tune is done - then they don't have to force the client to buy an emulator. An emulator that will get installed in the ECU and only ever act as a chip until they come back for changes or a retune.

I really would like an explanation on your comment. You say management is everything IMPLYING that an S300 is a REQUIREMENT, yet again it doesn't change how the ECU functions, the contents of the EEPROM that it's emulating is what does that, and those instructions can be put on a real eeprom just as easily. In fact it's logically and mathematically provable that running a chip is more reliable than running an emulator.

I'm not at all advocating doing a half *** job on anything or cheaping out on everything, I spent more on my wastegate than my turbo..hell I spent more on fittings. But chip versus emulator is not even in that category; they have the exact same result.

I would literally bet you anything that you could not tell the difference between a car running off a chip and a car running on an S300 once tuned. Because their is no difference.

The ECU turns on, the OKI66K starts booting off its internal ROM, sees that J1 is set and then starts reading from the EEPROM socket. S300 acts like an eeprom and provides the data to the ECU and an eeprom, well, acts like an eeprom and does the same. The ECU has no idea whether there is an emulator or not, and if the exact same bytes are on the eeprom as an S300 will provide then the ECU will act identically.

But wait..weren't you the same guy who told me to throw my turbo in the garbage because it was completely ruined because I had driven less than 200km with it blowing oil? Not even touching how illogical that is in the first place, I'm happy to report the turdbo is not producing any oil at this point and is working perfectly.

Again, I must apologize to the OP who came on here with a perfectly intelligible theory on how to save themselves some cash and was completely misled and basically told "go home and come back when you have enough $$ to play with the big bois"

The only statement made that is accurate is that management is everything. This is very true. But the implied message behind that statement isn't. An ECU with a chip has no less of the ability to manage an engine properly as an S300.

Let's roll back a minute. Do you know the history of how your beloved Hondata came to be?

The answer is this: a bunch of people didn't want to spend $2000+ on "proper management" (standalone ECU) so they started hacking and modifying and seeing what could be done with the stock ECU hardware. They quickly realized Honda themselves had designed the ECU to take a chip and some came with chips. They pulled the data and started figuring it out by literally hex editing the rom. Eventually they knew how to change fuel tables which was a step. From there more people helped and figured out the code and added new code. For a while Hondata ran on CHIPS to begin with. The emulators were introduced because burning a new chip everytime you want to make a change is far too time consuming to be productive. But it's all still based off the same Honda ROM that was originally pulled. Smanager is just a glorified hex editor.

It could very easily save ROMs for burning even - the only reason they don't is so that they can sell more emulators.

Please don't mislead people. I completely agree that a good tune and management is very important but as far as the ECU is concerned that same good tune could be on an s300, a demon or a chip and the ECU has no idea. I also agreagree with not half assing ****. And you do get what you pay for usually. But that doesn't mean everyone has to do exactly the same thing. By your logic there is only one way to build a car, the "right" way..so that means everyone ends up with the exact same stuff, the "right" exhaust, the "right" turbo, the "right" s300..

Simply put if everyone followed your logic than Honda's wouldn't be popular, Hondata wouldn't exist and no one would have any fun or learn anything by trying new/different things and likely ******* them up, which is often the best way to learn (because you sure as hell can't come on a forum and ask something without being told you're not good enough)

plus..saying something is impossible simply because it's out of your realm of expertise and there's not a way to do it built into the app..impossible is a strong word.

OP if you get tuned with the S300 and send me your map I will convert it to a burnable version running on either Hondata or HTS rom just to prove it's possible and to spite the "you gotta pay to play" people.

being on a budget does not have to mean your **** is half assed or will be unreliable or anything. I admit often it does, especially with Honda's. But not buying an emulator when you're not a tuner yourself is not half assed, unless your tuner requires it..

MANY other platforms it is the NORM for the TUNER to OWN the tuning hardware (s300) and the client just gets a flashed rom (chip).. Hondata has brainwashed you all to make this backwards to sell more units! They decided one day to disable saving bins for chips simply so they could sell an s300 per car. Neptune does the same, you must have a tuner license and if I recall correctly pay a per-car tuning fee if using chips. Even eCtune did the same. But now eCtune is HTS and free including that functionality.

 

I use HTS. Works great! On my b20v made 218hp and 150ftlbs.

 

Our reputable tuner in Arizona is Locash. He is at the races and modifications are constantly made based on data logging what the car is doing on hondata,amongst others . See AZCivics build . I am not a tuner but even if you are out there and are data logging, no race sanction is gonna wait for someone to burn a chip and then install it . The same tune isn’t going to be the same in different elevations and temps .

 

:D Yep - and being actively developed. I'm hoping to have a new flex fuel implementation going this summer that will be more akin to standalone style.

Yeah, definitely, burning chips is really not a real time thing. I only recommend it for clients who won't make any changes on their own car ever. If a client comes in and wants a tune and I'm the only person to ever touch the tune then it really doesn't matter if they have an EEPROM or an emulator. I feel like it would be totally misleading to make a customer spend an extra $500 on hardware that only I will ever really use, I'd much rather explain the options to the customer and let them decide.

But if you do want to make your own changes ever, definitely an emulator is the way to go over burning chips.