Greetings. I'm not able to find what I want, so I'm asking for advice.

I just paid for the bones of a Prelude JRSC and am contemplating a build list. I'm going to run this setup with the standard 7psi pullies, if I get into the high-13's on street tires I'll be happy. Despite my tuner agreeing with the research I've done in that at stock boost the JRSC doesn't need to be intercooled (Michigan, 93 octane pump gas) to appease my local Hondabro I'm going to look into it.

There is room in the lower intake manifold for an intercooler. If the primary/secondary runners are hogged out like one is building a high-rpm NA manifold one has space for a cooler. I don't want to spend the money on Laminova cores, have diverters fabricated, and welded into the manifold. What I want to do is find a bar and plate IC core and simply carve out a nice square in the lower IM so the core sits flush with the top flange of the LIM. This would functionally replicate the intercooler that ZZP sell for the GM 3800's. However I'm not finding any premade cores that are the correct dimensions.

My best idea currently is to use something rather different; a Hayden brand power steering cooler. They're aluminium and even if not the exact size I need, would either fill enough of the void to be effective or are easily trimmed. They just seem to me to be a little fragile to be trusting in the intake stream. Ultimately this is a luxury to the build and not something I have to have, but if I can implement something without becoming a large portion of the build cost, I'll pursue it. Thank you for the time.

 

You cannot get enough I/C core INSIDE the JRSC manifold to effectively cool the boosted air charge forever... what you are suggesting will delay the intake temps from rising, but the heat WILL come. As an example, the LHT intercooler upgrade in a "B" series GSR JRSC kit delays the intake temps from rising by 15 to 20 seconds... and then the delta change in temp rises at about 60% the speed of a non-intercooled JRSC.

That trans cooler core that you have pictured has WAY less surface area compared to two 10" long Laminova I/C cores... so what you are considering to use will be even LESS efficient than what I described above. I recommend you get a water/meth injection kit and use that instead. It will be much more effective at keeping the IAT values down.

 

Water/meth is not an option. I'm not interested in something that runs out after several minutes of boost. Also, I find it hard to believe that a system constantly removing heat from the intake charge will not keep the temperature from reaching a non intercooled peak. It's not like the water isn't being cooled by a radiator before going back to the intercooler. I expect such a system to get warmer but it will keep the temperatures from getting as hot as before. For an intercooler to only delay temps from reaching 210f then the temps have to be above to get even hotter than that, which as far as I know is not the case.

The H22/Prelude kit uses the stock LIM.

Post #26 has a clear photo of the LIM volume I'd have to work with.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-mo...ifold-3188797/

This design is what I'm attempting to mimic here.
https://zzperformance.com/products/z...ercooler-cores

 

^^ Water meth doesn't run out that quickly. AEM offers a 5 gallon tank to extend capacity by a lot if you really wanted to be sure. I just have the 1 gallon tank in my car with a single 500cc nozzle currently and 1 gallon of spray will last 1-2 months and many, many WOT pulls. With the low horsepower of a basic JRSC setup, you would be fine with a 250cc nozzle and use even less.

Water/methanol is great. I won't own another turbo car without it. Especially since I have no access to E85.

 

I suppose I'm thinking of hot lapping on a road course and how long it would last there. Even though I've never even been autocrossing yet let alone a real track. I don't like the idea of being tied to a second consumable, even if I'll never use it. When you put it like that it doesn't sound like a bad alternative. The spray has to be downstream of the screws though, correct?

 

You mean before the S/C in your case? I would think that would be the best place for it. You could inject it directly into the intake manifold but you would lose a lot of the charge cooling capabilities because the mixture will not have time to properly atomize before being sucked in by the cylinder. The charge cooling will be the most beneficial part of the setup for you. It will make a huge difference in a setup like the one you are considering. The JRSC setups are very susceptible to heatsoak and very high IATs. The water/methanol will eliminate a large majority of both of those issues. For a setup like yours I would recommend keeping the nozzle as far from the s/c as possible, like a few inches after the filter on your intake tube. This will allow it to properly atomize and turn into a "fog" which is what creates the cooling effect. The further up you move it, like to the throttle body/intake manifold directly/etc, the more it acts like a liquid and you will see less charge cooling and a higher chance of supercharger damage/wear over time.

I have a huge intercooler on my turbo car and without water/meth I was seeing 120F+ IATs around 300whp during the summer. After water/meth they will stay at 80-85F during pulls at nearly 400whp, even when it's 90+ degrees outside. It's actually quite comical to watch the IATs plummet in the datalogs almost immediately after going WOT. There are a few other H series setups with a JRSC on water/meth out there and they have seen pretty great results. You may try searching for some of those builds for some more specific info.

 

I see. I had been informed that water/meth upstream of the supercharger would corrode the rotors. I also assumed that it would condense on the rotors and end up dripping or spitting down I ok the new "plenum". Hence my interest in intercooling.

It's also seeming that without buying a chinesium copy of the AEM kit, if I want a boost- relative automatic setup I will have to buy the AEM kit. Lol...this was supposed to be cheaper than turbo or finishing my NA euro-r project.

 

It won't corrode them as long as the mixture has time to atomize. The problems come in when the mixture is moving at a high speed and still in droplet form. The droplets cause a ton of tiny little impacts that add up over time. It's the same reason why pre-turbo injection is generally bad and will erode impellers.

You really wouldn't have to run anything crazy to see good results. You get most of the charge cooling from water and the octane boost is from the methanol. You could run something like winter blend blue washer fluid and see huge benefits without having to spend a premium on boost juice. Alternatively you could mix your own which is what I do. 5 gallons of M1 methanol and 5 gallons of distilled water mixed 50/50 will last me 1-2 years.

Personally I love my AEM kit. It's not cheap but it was a great investment. The quality is top notch and it has been chugging along with no issues for over 6 years now. Very easy to install and the progressive controller with the built in MAP sensor is easy to incorporate into a typical tune. There are cheaper alternatives out there but they don't have nearly as many features. The Snow Performance Stage 1 kit is a couple hundred cheaper the last I checked. Some people even use a standard cheapo washer fluid reservoir and pump setup for theirs. The only problem with that is the cheap pumps can't put out nearly enough pressure for what you want. You really need a fairly high pressure for proper atomization.

 

Aradin, my friend is telling me that water injection will not properly fog enough not to damage the rotors on the supercharger. I'm inclined to trust his experience on telling me if something will break or not.

So, returning to that PS cooler core, what about double stacking them to make an inch and a half thick core? Again, I'm trying to find a bar-and-plate core that's affordable but I'm just spitballing with what I have access to. A pair of Laminova cores the correct length to fit this are going to be over $300

I measured the butterfly spacer gasket out of a partial head gasket kit I have and I'd forgotten how small this is. 190mm or 7-1/2" x 84mm or 3-5/16". This thing is half the length of the plenum on the S2 Pro IM I'd bought for the NA build. 0_0'.

 

Read this if you want more info about it and decide for yourself: https://prometh.com/blogs/tech/72804...n-supercharger

I'm going to agree with JR in that I don't really think you're going to get very good or even measurable results with what you're trying to do with the power steering coolers.

 

Trust me it looks janky to me too. I just cant find any bar and plate cores that small. I'll read the link though.

[EDIT] While my programming dictated I mistrust a company's defense of its product against criticism it does inspire me to do what I should have from the start; to email Jackson racing and ask them directly.

 

I get that you're trying to think outside the box and it is a neat concept but like I said I don't think it's going to be very practical. Like JR said it will simply delay the inevitable. Those JRSCs make crazy amounts of heat.

One last thing to consider for the water/meth is the scale of what you're doing too. There are tons and tons of V8 guys out there spraying 1000cc+ of water/meth directly before the blower and not having any issues. A small 250cc nozzle, especially when installed further away from the throttle body, to keep temps in check is really unlikely to have any negative effects. I can't say for sure though as I have no hands on experience with JRSC setups and water/meth specifically so I will leave you to do your own independent research. It does have a lot of benefits and is relatively cost effective for the gains if you decide it's viable for you.

 

Yeah, Meth/water kits don't work like that. even the 1 gallon kit. With a good 550cc injector, It can last at least a month or so, and making it/ purchasing it is much easier to remake than the LHT.
And I'm in Michigan also. I make my own Meth/water mix all the time.

 

I believe I've been sufficiently educated. Thank you everyone for the input, it has been gratefully appreciated.

[Supercharger arrived. The unit itself is fine but the jackshaft and two of the idlers sound like a dying AC clutch]

 

Good luck to you.. I'm sure you'll make it work to your satisfaction.