Brake proportioning issues
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footwork mastery
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Bigger, Faster, Smarter, Stronger
I have an incomplete setup right now which might be the cause.
Wilwood 4 piston front kit for my 2000 DX hatchback and stock drums rear. The pedal would go to the floor before finally working so I got an ITR brake master cylinder and everything felt great and tight again. After 4 autocrosses and a track day now I have found an issue. The rears are locking up way before the fronts like not even close. Autocross not a big deal losing some time in braking and the rear stepping out is nice but I’d like to get this balanced correctly. If I get the Wilwood rear kit/ Civic si, integra rear disk brakes it’s just going to make the issue worse right? Or am I thinking about this wrong and adding rear disks will solve the issue?
I know there is a debate about only the 00’ si having a 40/40 prop valve where as the rest are 40/30. I just feel adding rear disks is going to make it even worse or is there something touchy about drums I don’t know?
Wilwood 4 piston front kit for my 2000 DX hatchback and stock drums rear. The pedal would go to the floor before finally working so I got an ITR brake master cylinder and everything felt great and tight again. After 4 autocrosses and a track day now I have found an issue. The rears are locking up way before the fronts like not even close. Autocross not a big deal losing some time in braking and the rear stepping out is nice but I’d like to get this balanced correctly. If I get the Wilwood rear kit/ Civic si, integra rear disk brakes it’s just going to make the issue worse right? Or am I thinking about this wrong and adding rear disks will solve the issue?
I know there is a debate about only the 00’ si having a 40/40 prop valve where as the rest are 40/30. I just feel adding rear disks is going to make it even worse or is there something touchy about drums I don’t know?
Isn't this the problem inherent with drum brakes? They suck in any performance application, and don't give the driver much "metering" ability when pushing them to the limit. Have you tried adjusting them?
I would say you need to go all discs if doing autocross. Also proportioning will be tricky anyway when braking hard because there is very little weight on the rear tires.
I would say you need to go all discs if doing autocross. Also proportioning will be tricky anyway when braking hard because there is very little weight on the rear tires.
I have an incomplete setup right now which might be the cause.
Wilwood 4 piston front kit for my 2000 DX hatchback and stock drums rear. The pedal would go to the floor before finally working so I got an ITR brake master cylinder and everything felt great and tight again. After 4 autocrosses and a track day now I have found an issue. The rears are locking up way before the fronts like not even close. Autocross not a big deal losing some time in braking and the rear stepping out is nice but I’d like to get this balanced correctly. If I get the Wilwood rear kit/ Civic si, integra rear disk brakes it’s just going to make the issue worse right? Or am I thinking about this wrong and adding rear disks will solve the issue?
I know there is a debate about only the 00’ si having a 40/40 prop valve where as the rest are 40/30. I just feel adding rear disks is going to make it even worse or is there something touchy about drums I don’t know?
Wilwood 4 piston front kit for my 2000 DX hatchback and stock drums rear. The pedal would go to the floor before finally working so I got an ITR brake master cylinder and everything felt great and tight again. After 4 autocrosses and a track day now I have found an issue. The rears are locking up way before the fronts like not even close. Autocross not a big deal losing some time in braking and the rear stepping out is nice but I’d like to get this balanced correctly. If I get the Wilwood rear kit/ Civic si, integra rear disk brakes it’s just going to make the issue worse right? Or am I thinking about this wrong and adding rear disks will solve the issue?
I know there is a debate about only the 00’ si having a 40/40 prop valve where as the rest are 40/30. I just feel adding rear disks is going to make it even worse or is there something touchy about drums I don’t know?
Eesh, Locking rears is not a safe or fast method for rotating the car. You can drive fast in a car with too much front bias, but one with too much rear bias is just plain dangerous.
For 96-00, the prop valve is the same part number for the Si and for the models with 9.5" fronts. The EX is the oddball of the bunch with its own prop valve. So, you already have the "correct" valve on there for a rear disc conversion. I'd start with the rear conversion and go from there. Without knowing anything about the complete rest of your setup it's hard to say what your caliper swap has done to the bias. What calipers did you change to? What is the piston area compared to your stock calipers? Did you change rotor size too? It's a pretty safe bet you went bigger, but there are teeny little setups for dedicated Auto-X setups that fit under 13" wheels... It's highly likely that you are pushing much more piston in the front brakes than you were before, building less pressure for a given amount of pedal travel... Food for thought.
Changing to the aforementioned EX prop valve may be a valid experiment too.
Changing the master cylinder size does not change the bias.
Thread Starter
footwork mastery
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 8
From: Bigger, Faster, Smarter, Stronger
I don’t only autocross this car I also track it so this isn’t an autocross specific setup. Whole reason I’m worried is because it’s obviously slower and unsafe to have the rear coming around like this.
Going to install rear disks and hope it solves the issue unless anyone has first hand experience?
Going to install rear disks and hope it solves the issue unless anyone has first hand experience?
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What calipers did you change to? What is the piston area compared to your stock calipers? Did you change rotor size too? It's a pretty safe bet you went bigger, but there are teeny little setups for dedicated Auto-X setups that fit under 13" wheels... It's highly likely that you are pushing much more piston in the front brakes than you were before, building less pressure for a given amount of pedal travel... Food for thought..
If it turns out that you aren't building enough pedal pressure up front due to larger caliper piston area, you may have to go to an aftermarket brake proportioning valve to get the brake bias right. I had to do exactly this to keep the rears from locking in my car. I took out the stock proportioning valve, added tees for the brake lines, and installed a Wilwood pressure-reducing type brake proportioning valve inline with the rear brakes. I have it set 1/2 turn below maximum reduction (brake bias almost fully forward), which lets me lock the fronts just before the rears do under hard braking.
Last edited by boxedfox; Aug 22, 2018 at 05:06 PM. Reason: So many typos.
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