Hey everyone!

I'm about to finish my ek4 b16 turbo.

I have coilovers, and now i need brakes.

I wanna know which setup do you guys suggest to a 300whp track car (circuit).

2 pot calipers will be enough?

I'm using 17 inch wheels, but the 15 inch maybe back, since it's cheaper any kind of semi slick.

I can find some caliper like brembos, wilwood, but it's hard to find the whole kit.

Import parts will be my last option, since dollar is expensive here in Brazil and the taxes almost double the cost.

Thanks in advance.

 

All you need are SS lines and a proper set of pads.

The OE system is plenty capable.

When you say 'track', do you mean drag strip or road race?

 

testify,

I mean circuit driving, sorry.

 

You said circuit..You're ok.

I'd look to a good OEM caliper upgrade if anything. A civic si or si-r, or if possible a Integra type R.

Check Google for Honda-tech's brake cross reference guide by "brake expert"..best guide around

 

9.5 or 10.2 fronts? I don't know what an "ek4" came equipped with.

 

The closest we have for OEM parts are from accord V6 and Cr-v, we don't have integra parts, we also have preludes, but they are rare and hard to find in good conditions.

By Si you mean the 99? From Si we only have the models 07+, which are the 8th gen.

I've been thinking about cr-v calipers or wilwood calipers, bigger brake discs, and dot 5 and stainless lines.

In the rear any advices, or should i keep the oem?

 

It's going to cost very little to try the OEM route.

Try that first and if you get fade, reevaluate.

Wilwood brakes are junk. You're better off with your OE brakes.

 

For brake fluid, do not use Dot 5 (silicone) fluid as it doesn't mix/absorb water, so any moisture that gets in could cause some really bad fade issues. There is a 5.1 fluid (like Motul 5.1) that is not silicone based, so that could be used, or if you are actually going to track the car, then I suggest just going with Motul RBF600 as its boiling points are pretty high, and the cost and availability isn't too bad. It would be best to fully drain and flush the brake fluid as the fluid will slowly absorb moisture.

As far as brakes, as Testify mentioned, the thread https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspen...egras-3044628/ which is up in the sticky section is really good. For calipers, some Honda V6 (V6 wagons?) use the same calipers as the ITR, so the calipers aren't that hard to find. For front rotors, you might go with VTEC rotors that have been redrilled (if needed), or some people use 'mini cooper' rotors - check the autocross/road race forum and search for info. Based on the rotor, you may need to grind the caliper bracket somewhat to get the rotor centered. That thread also has info on converting from rear drums to rear disks.

If you do start tracking your car, and haven't been on track before, then try to spend time with a good instructor so they can spot any correct any issues with your driving. You might be able to do some things wrong out on track (not being smooth enough, not looking far enough ahead, etc.) and not have issues at lower speeds, but that will be issues as you go faster. - Jim

 

You can simply use a DPHA willwood kit that will work for your current brake system if the other choices are not available. The rear calipers can be OEM, but really invest in better pads/lines/ fluid.

 

Yes, we have few options available.
There was a time that going to us to shop and send to Brazil was easier and cheaper, but now, no way.

And switching to bigger caliper, maybe i'll need to switch master/slave cylinder and brake booster? (i don't know if it is the right name).

And certainly i'll use better pads, fluids and lines.

 

Sorry, Jim.

I'll use dot 4 racing pentosin, motul rbf 660 are not available anymore here.

I have some experience in track, but i was running with a fa5 NA, but with light mods.
I'm planning on do some mods on my ek4, but i don't think the oem brakes can handle 300whp, but if i don't find any other option, maybe i'll go with better pads, fluid and lines.
I'm gonna start with basic mods, and upgrading as long as i gain more experience and testing new setups.

And thanks for the advices.

 

Idk how demanding your track is on brakes. But with 300HP and 17" wheels, a 5 lug conversion (or equivalent sized parts), and race pads (Hawk DTC, Carbotech, Cobalt, etc) with the right fluid should be perfectly fine.

You may need more depending on skill level, size and type of tyres, etc.

 

With my 91 sedan making 300whp, I had DA brakes with Carbotech XP8 pads, Techna-fit SS lines, and ATE Superblue brake fluid. That felt like a lot of brakes on the track.

 

Dang XP8. All that light weightness must make a difference. My (full weight) S2000 runs out of brakes with XP10 front/XP8 rear at long tracks like Autobahn CC full. Street tyres.

 

I thought that I would have needed that combination for my car as well, but after talking to the guys at Carbotech they recommended I just use XP8. I also used cheap Autozone rear pads. Had no issues all weekend on the front and back straights of VIR. It rained off and on that weekend and had great modulation in the wet.

 

XP10 and XP8 or XP10 and Stoptech SP work great on my S2000 at short tracks like GMR.

But...I use XP12/XP8 or XP12/XP10 at longer tracks. I'm not in love with XP10's in back. But...they work fine once I get used to them.

I haven't been to VIR, but hear it is hard on brakes. When I went to Road America, I was still pretty timid and new to tracking cars....and using (LOL) EBC yellows. They fell apart.

 

Still don't know what size fronts are on the OP's car. There are a few options for all-oem upgrades that will save him from having to pay his import tariffs/taxes. Getting more heat capacity in the system is a big part of the equation. Thicker/larger rotors should also be considered, especially if on the smaller 9.5" brakes. If the fronts are 10.2" and the rears are already disc, it's really easy to move up to 11.1" fronts and 10.2" rears with nothing but oe parts and maybe a trip to the machine shop.

Fronts:

- Accord wagon/CR-V/Integra R/etc calipers w/23T brackets, 4mm milled off back of brackets to move them inboard
- '95-'96 Prelude vtec rotors redrilled to 4x100

I've been running this setup for almost 20 years now and have always been happy with it.

- I think you can also use the 25T brackets with a redrilled Legend rotor, but I've never physically confirmed this. That would get you a 2mm thicker rotor (more metal = more heat capacity!)
- Alternative 2 would be the same calipers, no machining, and the mini rotors. Same diameter, but the mini rotors are thinner than the Prelude rotors, so I kind of feel that to be a downgrade. Fully bolt on though.

Rears:

- '02-'03 Civic Si (EP3) calipers and rotors on the stock spindles. Swap the park brake levers over from your stock calipers to attach the stock cables

 

For tyres i'm thinking about Hankook RS3, or maybe r888, but r888 are too expensive in 17", 15" maybe an option too.

 

Spadam,

You've running on 15" wheels?
And about the rears, i only have the Civic Si sedan (FA5).

 

Yeah, T1 at VIR is no joke on brakes. On the back straight, there's plenty of braking room coming into T14.

How much track experience do you have? I'm only asking bc, just my experience, you don't want to give yourself a learning handicap by having sticky tires on the track

 

I think you mean good pads and fluid. SS lines do very little at all to help with braking as it is more of a feel and very minimal at best unless you have severely worn out OEM lines.

Which Wilwoods are junk? The shitty "kits" that they sell already put together with smaller than OE calipers and pads? If so yes. If not then you should do some research and reevaluate your knowledge on brakes. While I will say that Wilwood are an entry level aftermarket caliper, there is nothing wrong with them. They can stop a 180MPH 3,300LB car fairly quick and are chosen for several racing sanctions as the go to caliper. Most AP Racing can be had for not much more and some of the Alcons but you have decide if your chassis can even benefit from such a high caliber brake system.


Bottom line is, ITR brakes are IMO the best OEM Honda brake alternative. You can argue with the S2000/RSX calipers, or some of the fixed piston that Honda made... but the design of not just the ITR caliper but the pad shape too makes for a solid package at a great price point. The biggest downfall is rotor size which can be aided by proper brake ducts. It's a very strong brake setup, but it will never be a stout fixed brake caliper solely due to the sliding caliper design.

 

I've raced with RS3 already, with my Si w/ bolt-ons, around 240hp, HFP suspension, brake upgrades.