Hey there,
Anyone on this board running a vortech supercharger on their integra? I am highly considering getting this kit as my big "power mod". I'm interested in the numbers you're putting down as well as the times you're running, plus any issues regarding daily use.

I searched this board and while it seems everyone has an opinion regarding the vortech supercharger, I have yet to hear feedback from someone who actually has the vortech supercharger on their car.

Oh, and I am well aware honda-tuning ran a 14.9 w/their vortech gsr, and I am also aware 99% of the people on this board are anti-vortech, but I am considering getting it for a number of reasons. If there are excessive flames I'll type out my reasons but I just want a general discussion on integra owners' experiences w/vortech. A friendly discussion of course

Thanks...

Shingo

ps. If this seems like a redudant post feel free to lizzzok it up....I searched and found plenty of posts with "Vortech = worst of Turbo and SC" but no actual feedback from people who owned the unit.

pps. I posted this earlier on "another" message board as well as the integra forum, and still haven't met any vortech owners...hopefully there will better responses here...

 

y do u want a vortech?

 

Isn't this a good enough indication you shouldn't get it? Why would you want to? And a 14.9 vs. the stock mid 15? damn, i didn't know it was that bad...

 

try this board if you havent already...its an integra FI forum. cant get anymore specific than that, can you?
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ult...bb=forum&f=110

also here's a post from a vortech owner from clubsi:
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...=&fpart=1&vc=1


[Modified by keebler65, 9:54 PM 11/7/2002]

 

actually I think 100% of the people on this board on anti-vortech.

p.s. there is a reason for that.

 

I'm not anti Vortech. I'm anti centrifugal superchargers.

 

I think you should go into the reasons why you want the vortech and we can go from there.

 

Reasons for getting vortech? Hrm...

Basically my car is a hardcore daily driver (120 miles/day last summer y0!) so I want some reliable bolt-on power. My instincts point to JRSC but after the vortech came out I was interested in seeing how it fared, and wanted to get feedback from actual vortech owners.

Judging from the responses I've gotten over at HAN I'm probably going to end up with JRSC. Am I correct in assuming the vortech has more potential, but the JRSC is more streetable?

Shingo

 

If those are your two choices the Vortech certainly has more potential simply because you could turn the boost up alot more than you could on the JRSC.
I don't think thats going to matter with you though since your car gets so many miles I doubt you'd build the motor to handle the higher boost right ?

As for the JRSC, you could get some charger work done and run higher boost but the problem there will always be it's not intercooled/aftercooled unless you go with some sort of prototype setup.

If I had to pick between the two of them I'd go with the Vortech personally.

 

I forgot to mention:

This is a 1999 Integra gsr w/40,000 miles. 120 miles/day was just that past summer but I used it as an example of how bulletproof I need this baby to be. I will definitely be getting various safeguards to be able to handle higher boost safely, but this will mainly just give me room to breathe. I'm not looking to break any 1/4 mile times.

There isn't an aftercooler for the gsr vortech kit; perhaps it's possible to fabricate the si aftercooler to fit?

Shingo

 

Yup at least you have a reasonable chance of getting something to work as opposed to the JRSC.

 

So with a vortech I could possibly have a nice aftercooler along with a phat BOV...

versus with a JRSC I could use a "water mist sprayer"

Well my mind is set y0! hehe

Thanks for the replies guys...

Shingo


[Modified by Shingoblade-GSR, 4:56 PM 11/7/2002]

 

I read that the GSR kit is actually getting an Aftercooler developed for it right now. I know it gave somewhere around 40whp to the Si kit, but does anyone have dynos? I have never seen vortechs at higher PSI either... I can't seem to track em down. It would be interesting to see if upping the PSI would make a more usable powerband, just a thought...

 

Well I have one on my Si.

My car is more than a daily driver, because of work I move every 3-6 months. So I pack all of my clothes, TV, computer, and some tools into my car and drive, sometimes cross country.

This last summer I drove (with the Vortech) from Northern Cali to Dallas, TX and on to the Southern coast of Mass.

My engine is stock except for cams. I have some other mods like header, high flow cat, some ignition stuff, and some tranny stuff. I have never thrown a CEL and still average over 30 mpg on my long road trips.

As far as power, I put down 242hp and 166 ft/lbs. at 7600 rpm through the stock Si exhaust. And my best 1/4mi. (because I am still learning how to launch a FF) is a 14.1 @ 102 mph on street tires and stock exhaust.

I know that more power can be made with a turbo, but I chose to go this route.

Hope this helps.

 

And why is a turbo unreliable? Boost is boost, weather it's coming from a turbo or a supercharger. It's only as reliable as the guy driving the car. Expand your knowledge of FI, realize that proper fuel management is KEY to a dependable setup, and drive it responsibly, and there's no reason why a turbocharged Honda can't be as relaible as an NA Honda. If you want to split hairs and start nit picking about reliablity, the SC weighs alot more and having all that weight hanging off your intake manifold studs can't be good. Then we have thermal efficiencies. The SC is only about 50% efficient, while turbos can be upwards of 75% efficient. The SC is putting more heat into your engine, increasing the chance of detonation, and probably causing mild detonation. Heat is the enemy. Why aggrivate the situation?

I'm not a centrifugal supercharger owner, and I never will be for these very reasons:

1) Drivability. Since we're talking daily driver here, a flat powerband is more important than peak HP. The Vortech unit has a torque curve that angles up at a steady 35° or so all the way across the RPM range. The JR unit is flatter. However, the JR produces less peak HP, but has more area under the line, and this is what's important. Not only that, but since the centrifugal supercharger speed is proportionate to engine RPM because it's mechanically linked to the crank, and will make more boost the faster it spins, you need to set it up to not cross the surge line before redline. So... at redline, it makes it's maximum boost

2) Engine load. The damn thing is boosting all the time. Why the hell do you need to boost when you're coasting or just cruising along at a steady speed? You don't. Which further wastes power and energy, not to mention it drives your gas mileage down. A turbo retains stock MPG untill you step on it. In other words, it only gives you power when you ask for it. To further back this up- the heat energy produced by gasoline is divided into three expenditures- 1/3 to drive the piston down, 1/3 is absorbed by coolant, and the remaining 1/3 is spit out the exhaust. To top it off, you have a supercharger that requires roughly 60 HP to spin (which is, incidentally enough, 1/3 of the total power output of a stock GSR motor). Now, what if you could harness that 1/3 of the energy that's spit out the exhaust and didn't have to spend 60 HP to drive a supercharger?


Rather than typing two pages, I think you should read everything here: http://www.cartech.net/bmwm3turbo.htm Granted, it's about BMWs, but it applies to what we're talking about and pretty much summs up my feelings about the different types of forced induction.

 

96 hatch w/ b16b, kamikaze header, 3" thermal, and dsm450's w/ AFC hack. Ran a best of 13.1@104 w/ a 2.1 60'

It's a fun car to drive but not my cup of tea...really peaky and all the power's up top.

--Ian



[Modified by clendaniel, 11:05 PM 11/7/2002]