I stated that a 300whp all motor setup would **** all over a 300whp (and keep up with a 4-500whp) turbo setup on the street (on the strip usually, too) My friend called me crazy. The setup I was talking about in particular is an H23v, fully built. Heres the points I made....

All motor is instant power and you get to max power, faster
No turbo lag
Alot more usable on the street than big #s from forced induction
Power is more controllable and linear
Less torque=less wheel spin
If the person driving the n/a car can actually drive, they'll def. tank the boosted car

Lets hear your thoughts.

 

All motor is instant power and you get to max power, faster - no you dont, takes you much longer to get there.
No turbo lag - proper turbo setup has minimal time off boost, and if it is laggy, just change down a gear.
Alot more usable on the street than big #s from forced induction - possibly, but the other car would need bulk revs, which is equally unstreetable
Power is more controllable and linear - yes more controllable and linear, but slower
Less torque=less wheel spin - yes probably
If the person driving the n/a car can actually drive, they'll def. tank the boosted car - only if the person driving the boosted car cant drive.

 

Ok, even if it "takes longer", you still have usable power throughout the powerband. If it was that simple especially on the strip, you wouldnt see all of the 10/11 second n/a cars with only 250-350whp putting down the same times as boosted cars with double the power.

 

you didnt mention double the power, you mentioned the same power.
Area under the curve = faster car, and a turbocharged car will always have more of this.

you might have usable power through the powerband. just that the turbo car will have more

 

A gsr with a gt28 will not be slower than a car if similar peak power #'s.

 

This thread is about as useful as "how much HP will my car make"

 

the points you've made here works very well on a road race circuit track when throttle response, linear powerband and traction is needed for attacking corners. but if your talking about drag racing, hp is hp no matter how its delivered. gearing is related to traction. Honda invested alot of $ for the gearing of there n/a cars/engines. If honda developed a turbo car we would see better gearing, different engine blocks and head for the maximum efficiency for that. so your saying you have a proper n/a setup? thats good. just remember honda did most if not all the work for you all you did is put it together with some help from after market parts from companies. now a proper f.i setup? its gonna take serious R&D to put it all to the ground, the whole setup is custom especially the gearing and powerband.

OP i dont think you've ever been in a properly setup f.i. honda. cause if you did you wouldn't be here asking this question.

 

Desperately resisting the urge to troll this thread...

 

Gearing is a major part of the n/a side of things. The two setups in mention are actually my built h2b vs my friends boosted Quad 4. We were bullshitting about it because I think I'm gonna bury his car into the ground. He's making just shy of 300whp, my setup once tuned should net close to 250whp and the itr transmission makes it interesting. N/A Honda 2.3 vs GM boosted 2.3
I'm honestly not educated on forced induction at all.

 

Food for thought, how hard is it for you to run a 10.0 NA and how hard would it be for a turbo car.

I will just use my car as an example for the sake of the conversation. I am running an FIS Civic, which means I have full interior, real windows, doors, etc. I am sure you get the point. My Civic is 2400 pounds with me in it, I am running a small off the shelf journal bearing Garrett t3t61 turbo. Pro 1 cams so nothing too big or crazy, stock ITR throttle body and stock Victor X manifold on Hondata. On Friday I ran a 10.05 at 149.

Now, how hard would it be to get an NA 2400 Civic to run the same time? Could you do it without weight reduction, another thing to think about is with an upgrade of a turbo and a re-tune It would be easy to get me down in the 9's.

You also have to remember every setup is different as well. I think there is a guy who posted in the drag section that he has a turbo CRX with a very basic turbo low budget setup making like 3xx WHP that just ran a 10.5

 

Just, Wow.

 

Appreciate the educated response, makes sense obviously.

You're making me feel like I wasted all my time and money to get all of the parts to make my N/A build happen, lol.

I've also failed to mention my car will be almost completely a street car. One huge thing I will have in my favor is traction. I honestly don't know one person around here that was wise enough to buy good tires for the street. I'm gonna be running street slicks, traction bar, and obviously have an lsd. The people around here all broke and/or ignorant. A friend has a 450whp b16 turbo setup in his eg hatch. He runs low 11s. I've told him countless times to invest in a traction bar and an lsd (he's running open diff). He says, "idk why man, on the highway I punch it in fourth gear and end up in another lane." Yet, he won't take my advice on an lsd and traction bar for when he brings it out. People like that are what make me feel confident in a 12/11 second N/A setup being able to hang with, or trash their boosted setups.

 

And then there's people like you that have to comment and be a dick head. I'm young, learning more and more by the day, and willing to learn about what I am not well educated about. People act like their **** doesn't stink. The best way to learn is ask questions.

 

dont get me wrong, i love n/a (I sold my 300hp euro 2L turbo car for a 200hp EG), its much more fun to drive.

But you cant get away from the fact that at the same power level, a turbo car will be quicker all other factors being equal

 

https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...2A%2A-1024174/

 

OP, you're not talking apples to apples anyways so your argument holds no water. You keep making points for NA by implying a properly set up NA car vs. a poorly set up turbo car.

All things considered, if the playing field is leveled, power is power. The only thing that would be different on paper is that the NA setup would be significantly more expensive to build at the same power level.

In reality (at reasonably achievable HP levels, let's say 250whp), the NA motor will most most likely have a very focused, peaky powerband while the turbo car will develop power over a broader range. Ultimately there is more area under the torque curve in the FI engine which correlates to more usable power.

The NA car will require a close ratio gearbox to stay within that narrow band, while the FI car would be able to exploit a wider spacing and possibly save some time by just not having to shift as much. Either one requires gearing that is chosen correctly to get the most out of the setup though.

So, given the EXACT SAME chassis, you'll likely be a bit faster in the turbo car. If your goal is just to be fast, FI is the easy button and is ultimately going to build more power. If you're just a masochist (like me! ) and enjoy doing things the hard way, enjoy the challenge of fussing over every detail, or maybe just want to maintain a more stock looking/working motor, then NA might be the thing for you.

 

All depends on the power curve, driver, and suspension setup of each car.

Turbo car weighs more, thats about it lol

 

This thread is kind of pointless since there are so many specifics that have not even been defined(ie: vehicle weight,weight distribution, tire size/wheel size, tread rating,transmission gearing..ect) that anyone can come up with any answer and be right. As far as say a B18C NA built putting out peak 245whp@8500rpm and 185tq@6800rpm vs a B18C with a basic turbo that put out say 230whp@7200-8200rpm and 180tq@5800-7000rpm there is still going to be a huge difference in the power band and range that power is made at. Generally its going to be in favor of the turbo since both engine's are still going to be peaky with more power put down up top and the NA is only at max power for maybe a few hundred rpm while the Turbo has a much wider range in which it makes max power. But that just with Honda Vtec engines...when your comparing a different style or configuration engine then the answer changes completely. so really pointless when the specifics are not defined.

 

Lots of good information, keep it rolling I like learning.