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Pulled the head - here is what I see.

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Old Oct 19, 2014 | 10:33 AM
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Icon3 Pulled the head - here is what I see.

Short history: My lady overheated our F23A, (198K owned it since 50k) white smoke coming out of the exhaust, air leaking between cylinders 2 and 3 on a leak down test and compression was low on both of those cylinders, but squirting oil in them doesn't bring them up. Gotta be the head gasket, or possibly a crack in the block right...

Topped the radiator off with distilled water and a little bit of coolant until I can get parts and find the time to tear into it, had to start the car and move it a few times over the last couple of months while I had it parked but when I tore into it last weekend and today here is what I see:

Surface rust in cylinder 3:






There is no rust in any of the other cylinders, but the valve surfaces of cyls 2 and 3 are brownish and 1 and 4 are black and oily. There is no obvious crack between cylinder walls.





I can't see an obvious head gasket break/leak missing sections, although the head gaskets seem to be separated a little more between cyls 3 and 4, and this is my first head gasket R&R so honestly I am not sure what I am looking for/at.

Ideas?
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Old Oct 19, 2014 | 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Pulled the head - here is what I see.

Also, I bought a block with the head still attached that I was going to swap my parts over onto and just use that, but I didn't check it thoroughly when I bought it (my bad, but it was $200) and found it 3 broken exhaust studs flush with the heads... I center punched and used left handed drill bits and heated/PB Blastered them but I still managed to break an EZ out off in one of them! Sucks...

I recently did the timing belt and water pump on my block, but I may still swap everything over on to that block if I can get the EZ out and re-tap the exhaust manifold studs in the head.

Any tips or suggestions there?
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Old Oct 19, 2014 | 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Pulled the head - here is what I see.

Think I may have found the problem, or at least part of it. Found a small gouge/crack on one of the water jacket openings on the head above cyl 3 and some surface variations in the metal around it:





Here is cyl 2 in the same area (don't mind the scratch I made while cleaning just now):




Could this be causing coolant/water to leak past the gasket and into cylinders 3 and possibly 2?

Not sure why I would be losing air out of cylinder 2 on the leak down test if 3 is the with the leak - unless perhaps when I tested it the valves weren't completely shut?
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Old Oct 19, 2014 | 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Pulled the head - here is what I see.

most likely it was the headgasket, you said you moved it a couple of times , water got in the cylinder hence the white smoke and you let it sit with distilled water in the cylinder , what does water due to metal "RUST"
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Old Oct 19, 2014 | 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Pulled the head - here is what I see.

Originally Posted by turboep3666
most likely it was the headgasket, you said you moved it a couple of times , water got in the cylinder hence the white smoke and you let it sit with distilled water in the cylinder , what does water due to metal "RUST"
Thanks. It makes sense, and I'm assuming that tiny little crack/surface variation is what allowed the water past the gasket, I don't know enough about the internals of the engine to know. I'm no stranger to the rest of the engine bay and bikes and cars, but this is my first head gasket. The gasket has no cracks or breaks in it, and is the factory gasket.

Can anyone confirm that the surface distortion and gaps in the first pic of the third post would be enough to allow the water to blow by the gasket into the cylinder? As long as the head surface isn't warped, will a slight decking at a machine shop and new gasket likely fix the problem?

Based on the valve picture, do cylinders 1 and 4 look like the rings might be letting too much oil past (the motor does have 198K on it) and 2 are perhaps being wiped clean by the water leaking by, or perhaps are they just running leaner? Cylinder 2 shouldn't have any water in it, unless its blowing by the gasket, right? Also, it looks like the left intake valve on cylinder 3 might be sticking...

Sorry for all the n00b questions! Any help is appreciated.
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Old Oct 21, 2014 | 01:15 AM
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Default Re: Pulled the head - here is what I see.

to me it looks like where u have the erosion on the head was your failure point.. not by the erosion but that's where the headgasket let go and the coolant must be old causing it to eat the metal away.

I believe I read somewhere a while back old coolant becomes acidic over time. Or maybe it was from mixing different types of coolant.... Im not exactly sure but im not saying that erosion caused a headgasket failure but the erosion happened as a result.
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Old Oct 21, 2014 | 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Pulled the head - here is what I see.

Interesting. I have heard of cavitation in water pumps causing erosion and people concerned about aluminum radiators, I'm just surprised it would erode the head like that and cause surface deformations, but for now I will get the head decked and valves done at some point in the future.

For now I will be replacing this with another block I got for cheap but will be crossing my fingers in hopes that it holds up for at least a few more years and doesn't give me emissions issues, or blow out the tranny. I really do like this car.
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