Hi i had a trouble with my d16z6 vitara a while ago. Ive had a no start condition following a hard no start condition? I ran the new rebuilt motor ive had it like 3k miles on it up a sure steep hill. i reved it for a while later on a flat parking lot. I heard this faint ting/ping loud sound when i reved it. it went away and went out.
I drove it home the without any noise.
I died out of my parking lot and parked it.
it has eagle h beam rods also with ACL bearings on mains/rods.


The next night i can't start it. It had a problem i managed to get it started and it soon rough idle and started to knock like a loud PING noise then with loud constant knocking. The knocking is louder and didn't go away. for a while and it comes back when idle.
why coincidence it dont start up and then started up with a noise.


gave up tore apart the oil pan looks like it had some copper mixture mini flaxing form the bearing material ACL bearing i had.



I tore apart the motor ive checked the rod end caps.
Number 4 cylinder rod cap couldn't seem to have endplay??
The endplay is hard to move like its solid. the others move side to side okay.

i also had like 1/2 quart running it up a steep hill wide open throttle.




Could the number 4 rod bearing without endplay cause this noise??????? I always thought that really loose bearing would cause knocking sounds? my friend told me that thats the problem the no endplay bearing.

 

did you measure the block and your bearing clearances when you rebuild the motor?

 

yes mains where all .015 thousands perfect across. when i tore it apart mains where still good condition.
The rod bearings where .001 straight with plastigauge i got same reading on all so i asked 3 shops to mic it. they said i was within .002 and one shop say i was at .003 thousands of an inch.
but they spin okay when i spin the crank. before i installed them .
i saw a small knick on the piston but its very smooth. idk if i might of kinked it before but looks like a knick dent mark.
i don't have a mic.

could the number 4 cylinder be the cause of the knocking? it seems hard to move like its seized up or something?
i will hopefully take it to a shop to check it. what could cause that noise piston slap or the rod bearings.

 

If u aleady have the pan off just take the rod cap off and look its only 2 more bolts. Good luck u may need it

 

I took it off already the number 4th one that was very hard to endplay move.
The rod bearings look worn like it shaved worn looking also the other rods.
Its just hard to move the bearing endplay when installed could this be the bad causing the knock?

 

Wait, your bearings were .015?? Not .0015??? Cause that right there would be the problem. You need to be measuring in TEN thousandths .0010 on rods is a bit tight, .002 is perfectly fine. A bit loose but ok. .003 is way too loose.

 

LOL... A range of 0.0010 - 0.0030 for bearings? This isn't a V8 man... 0.0010" is too tight and 0.0020" is getting rather loose but fine for higher horsepower builds. 0.0030" is absolutely huge...

 

What kind of Mickey Mouse shops were you going to that they all gave you a different answer?

 

i went to a well known shop that does a lot of machine work that guy told me I got .003 with my STD bearing. the way he measured is with the crankshaft out and with the rod s out bearings in them.
Another guy I went to was a neighbor that had a mic and a mini telescop gauge they both measured with the crank/rods with bearing torqued. This guy told me i got .002 inches.

i went to another well known guy that does race motors he didn't plasticgauge it but also measured it with the mic etc. he said that the bearings where way too tight .001 and agreed with me. i used plastigauge like at least 5 times each rod or more torquing it 43 ft lbs eagle h beam rods.
im like wtf? i got .001 all the time i used a HX bearing i still got same results? with it very clean and this plastiguae was hard to get readings. .001 always. also making it sure the crank didn't move when i rechecked the caps bearing readings.

so i went with the guy that built race motors. he said he could open up the bearings but i didnt do it. he could just sand the bearings inisde to open it up like he always do for like 20 years old school style. but i didnt let him do it. i put together it as is. I run 5w30 oil did the oil changes and about 3k this happened. i noticed in the beginning of the engine like about 2k miles the motor was very quiet and smooth. now it idled like a normal z6 would.

it happened up a hill wide open throttle with only 1/2 engine oil low. up the hill it had a parking lot and i first heard a ping noise??? also its the first time in about 3k miles ive driven the motor hard. is oil cause a ping noise? oil starvation leaving number 4th hard ready to spin? bring the car home without any problem driving it.
but why it followed a no start condition later that night with a knocking when get it to start up.




Im in now process in re rebuilding the motor. the number 4th piston is still solid no endplay moving left/right. is this the culprit? would it cause a knocking metal ping noise???/

 

you went to 5 "reputable" dudes and you got different answers? hory shet. its pretty simple man. measure each journal, ensure its within spec. install bearings into block, lay crank in block. install bearings on main caps. put plastigauge across journal. Install cap to torque spec, remove cap, measure with plasti gauge. Check clearance. Wala. I built my own motors by reading and Ive been successful everytime so far. Today I accomplished a 84.5mm rebuild.

 

I tried using the acl std rod bearings and came up with .001 all the time i tried using plastigauge like 10 times or more also made sure the crank wasnt moving/ or oily etc, cleaned before i used the plastiguage and torqued it to eagle specs 43 ft lbs on the rod?

i also used a more clearance bearing the acl hx i still got the weird .001 thousandths wtf???

so i went out and let someone check it for me??? they check just measuring the / journal and ID of the rod?

 

If you spun a bearing you crank is 99% garbage now.

It really sounds like youve gotten yourself way in over your head with engine building and it sounds like these shops youve brought parts to arent familiar with building honda engines either (in terms of the sort of tolerances are required)

I think you just need to step away and have someone that knows how to build a honda engine proper assemble you an engine.

Just so you know, I had a crank/block combo that even with honda reds (thinnest oem bearing) the main bearings were still way too tight. I had to use a different block to get the tolerances in spec.

For what it's worth I spent a year planning my engine build, and spent 2.5 weeks, 1-2 hours a day, building my first engine. It now has 5000k+ on it without any issues. Everything is specd out to the dot. Only real issue is my head needs and exhaust cam seal so it leaks by the cam pulley, and the oil pan gasket weeps cause I didnt use any sealant (I kick myself for thinking it wouldnt leak without any)


Btw, what color plastigauge thread are you using?

 

5000k+? you've put over five million miles on the engine?...

 

Lol nah, typo. 5k+ was what I meant of course.

 

Figured, just giving you ****

 

i use the green.

okay i sent the whole bottom end to a shop.
the shop told me that the bearing that was causing the noise was the number 4th cyl. bearing that looked very hard to move endplay. It was very tight couldn't move and almost seized? now how would a tight rod on a crank be causing that rap constant knocking noise in an engine??? Piston slap cause the knocking weird noise? or what?
they say it was in the process in being almost turned to be spin. They also said there weren't enough oil to that 4th one. they saw one small colored nick on a piston side skirt but said it should be okay look smooth . they asked me if i hit something with it installing or when it was out i said i didn't hit anything. no noticeable on wall or anything.
The crank was checked and they said its okay since honda cranks are strong. The guy said there wasn't any nail grooves or anything.
They also inspected the parts where ive grind the engine block no signs of any damaged pistons rods or anything around the grind mark areas.



the weird thing how would a hard seized bearing cause a constant knocking noise? how can that number 4 rod bearing hard endplay cause the knocking???

 

Did they tell you the Ptw clearance on that cylinder ?

 

.002 to .003 within those specs.

ok i gave the block the other day and they called me. The shop recommends me to replace bearings so i will get new and that they reuse the crankshaft.
Reuse the eagle h beam rods no sign of overheating or worn that would need of replacement.

The shop manager told me that the noise rod knocking noise was caused by the rod bearing number four that it don't have any endplay likely was seized up.

But what baffles me is how does a tight rod that don't have any endplay end up causing a knocking noise to a constant loud knocking noise.
can anyone give me some info on how can a rod that don't have endplay have caused this engine knocking noise???

 

No oil causes knocking. Even if its too tight, because its too tight, the oil cant make a proper film to make a cushion for the rod journals to ride on and you get a knock knock knock. Also the tight rod may be slapping the piston into the cylinder walls a lot harder

 

and just to let you know the machinist told me that rod bearing cap number 4 was mixed with bearing cap number 2? would that cause it to cause so damage.
ok it is kinda clear to me now. so a seized bearing would cause a knock sound also i didn't know i always thought a really loose would cause that excessive knocking sound. So i will trust my machinist then. He said he inspected the piston, but still usable. I asked them about the rod clearance ive notched and they told me there where no signs of contact on the rod/ or girdle etc.
I will let the shop know now if they will just replace the bearings like they told me. So they can order and fix the bottom end soon.
Im too worried and baffled about a tight bearing causing a knock thats why.