Its been brought to my attention that this thread could be interpreted as slander or company bashing. THAT IS NOT THE CASE. Sheepey has gone above and beyond to resolve this issue. Because of the solid communication, this wont be an issue from now on with his products. It is, by far, some of the best costumer support ive seen in this industry.

But this thread does point out that creep is happening with many different manifold companies using larger 6262 and up turbos.


We had a car on the dyno last night with a name brand t3 top mount, turbo smart 45mm wastegate, and BB 6262, 84mm GSR

With the boot source hooked straight to the bottom of the gate, the car would boost creep infinitely. Wastegate has a 7psi spring.

Everything is new. the entire setup never saw boost until the dyno last night

We are all suspecting its a manifold issue, but before we start shipping things and whatnot, we want to make sure it isnt something else.

So ive got 2 questions, how should i go about testing a turbo smart gate, and what other things should i be looking for that could cause this much creep?

This pull is only to 7500RPM


Thanks guys

 

without seeing how it is all set-up, you might not be able to get an answer online.



it could be the smallest thing youre overlooking. you never know..

 

well, list me a couple things to look for

Today we will be disassembling the gate, in hopes it was a manufacturer defect.

heres a pic of the setup. There were really no corners cut. All vacuum lines are pushlock/hard lined. Car runs smooth as stock.

 

looks like a great, clean setup...i am a little jealous..


it is still a little difficult because i would prefer to actually be looking at how all the vacuum lines are set-up...seeing what is hooked up where ya know?

 

Who makes the manifold?

With the 6262 you will need a large gate or two.

 

I have a 6266 and I HAD to use a Precision 66mm gate to get boost creep under control on a top mount. I tried setting up the wastegate as priority and no matter what i did, it crept. I tried for about a month to figure things out...only thing i found that worked was a big *** wastegate lol.

 

In a perfect world, the wastegate is supposed to be vented on a straight section before any bends and the valve should be perpendicular to the flow of the exhaust, not parallel.

99% of the 4 cylinder manifolds I've seen don't do this and I get that its primarily for packaging reasons. To give you an idea, quite a few street-oriented single v8 setups we've done use a 44/45mm wastegate and it controls up to a 5.3L engine just fine but there's room in the exhaust to put the wastegate where it should be instead of being an afterthought.

Your option before buying a larger gate is to check with a regulator. If you don't have already have a leak-down tester of sorts, buy a $20 air regulator from home depot, hook it up to an air compressor and start putting air pressure to the bottom of the cylinder in the wastegate to see exactly where it opens at.

I've bought a on3 branded wastegate and the spring in it was rated at 7psi . . . didn't open off the seat until 12psi and wasn't fully open until 15psi. Switched to a tial yellow spring and solved that problem with just a spring change. Also seen a few ebay ones (I know yours isn't) that either didn't have the installed height set right or would bind in the housing. Take yours apart and check, they are all pretty basic.

 

It's a sheepy top mount. And I feel like regardless of when the valve starts opening, the boost should plateau at some point if it was a spring rate issue. This car would keep making boost the higher it was spun, as you can see on the graph.

So at this point, do we add another 45mm adjacent to the existing one, or do we do 1 big 60mm out of the front of the manifold collector?

 

Had major creep issues with ramhorn and 6262 on a 44 gate. After doing some research and talking to a few other guys with 6262 turbo i went with a 60 gate and solve all the boost creep problems

 

funny, because i was going to comment with a turbo that large, only using one wastegate thats plumbed off to the side like that might not be adequate..

 

I had similar issues years ago with a 35R on a ram horn with a 44mm wg. The problems is the WG, to solve my issue at the time it took a 60mm wg.

 

Its probably not a spring rate issue but my reply was geared towards your statements of:


You test wastegates by doing the same thing the motor does - supply pressured air to the bottom of the flapper thereby raising the valve off the seat.

Really not sure why a lot of manufacturers do this:



You need a giant (relatively speaking) wastegate to control things because the wastegate (or two) is in the worst possible position.

See: http://www.modified.com/tech/1306-ex...photo_05.html#

 

Ah I see.

So the question is: big single gate or twin 45s?

 

 

The entry to the gate isn't helping anything. To keep it where it is you'll prob need a 6Xmm gate. If you add another gate, give it some radius on the entry.

My personal car creeps a little on a dyna pack but doesn't nearly as bad in real life.

 

Short collector is still gonna creep regardless of the gate size.

 

Our sheepy manilfold being a short collector?

 

Tuned a few 6262 gsr's and never ran into creep with ram horns... 38mm

It's all in the collector and a leak free system.

 

odd...i had to step up from a 38mm to a 44mm to solve a boost creep problem when i stepped up from a t3/04e to a t3/60-1..

 

If you have to put 60+mm gate on a manifold for a 6262 to not creep, your manifold is not designed properly.. Plain and simple that's all there is too it.

If you want to test, take the gate completely off and see how much boost it makes. if it makes more than 1psi or so with no gate, the manifold is junk.

 

Yes. There isn't a chance for the exhaust energy to make that sharp turn so it just goes through the turbo instead.

 

I have never had an issue with creep with full-race manifolds, I have a 67mm on a full-race top mount now, with a single 44mm gate and have no creep issues.

 

Exact same issue on a 6765 and turbosmart 45 wg and afi topmount... uncontrollable creep. Tried even a bigger spring and still no luck

 

On a t4 divided setup i had to run a wayyyy lower spring pressure to get the boost I wanted. Running 7psi springs in each and its at 16psi of boost. The manifold doesnt have the smoothest wastegate entry and I have a 67mm turbo so im not too surprised that happened. Also, i've had a problem with the wastegate before where one of the set screws inside came loose and caused the valve to bind in the housing. Took it apart and retightened and it worked fine again.

 

Personally I would add another 44mm than having one 60mm........ 88mm is better than 60mm ..... Gate angle isn't good but its what you have to work with........