Hello, I drive a 1995 Honda Civic Ex 5-speed. While in neutral/not moving, if the clutch is engaged, it makes a sliiiiight noise. Now, whether or not I'm moving, if the clutch pedal is down, the sound goes away.

However, this sound isn't constant. If I take off on first, it makes a grinding noise at around 2k rpm to 3k rpm. It seems like the lower the gear, the louder it is. For instance, It's the loudest on 1st and second. It barely happens on 3rd, and doesn't happen at all at 4th. Is this a throwout bearing? Gearbox issue?

 

Sounds like a failing/failed input shaft bearing (ISB). Extremely common in D series transmissions. It's inside the transmission, and is the last thing to come out if you disassemble. You have two cost-effective options, and one not-so-cost effective option.

Option 1: Buy a used transmission. As long as the ISB in the used transmission isn't shot, it should fix the problem, however the replacement transmission's ISB might last a few years, or it might last a few days. That's just the nature of used parts.

Option 2: Overhaul your transmission. With a factory service manual (buy/borrow/download), some feeler gauges, a basic ratchet/wrench/socket set with a few extensions, and a bearing puller (you can rent this from your local parts chain) you can do it yourself, if you have an eye for detail. You can buy the basic bearing and seal kit from Synchrotech for $175, or the full bearing/seal/synchro kit for $250. I would definitely recommend getting the full kit if you go this route. If you aren't comfortable doing the work yourself, you should be able to find a local transmission shop. Drop off the transmission and replacement parts, and let them do the work for you. Obviously more expensive than buying a used transmission, but you'll have new internals that will definitely outlast anything in a used transmission.

Option 3: This is the not-so-wallet-friendly option. Buy a new transmission. Once again, give Synchrotech a call (or order through their website, here.) 1 year warranty, all completely new parts, $600 plus core (your old transmission). If you're considering option 2b (rebuild, with a shop doing the work), depending on the pricing you get from local shops, this option might actually be cheaper.

 

Also could just be a bad pilot bearing. I just rebuilt my gsr transmission and my ISB was shot for a LONG TIME (just too lazy to do it)

My pilot bearing was non existent and shaved it all the way gone ruining the act flywheel as well. It got to the point where you would release the clutch pedal and feel a grind in the pedal and unable to get into gear while the car was running.

Easy to tell if ISB is bad when transmission is out because the main/input shaft will have play and if you spin it you will hear little ***** rolling around out of place. I've done several rebuilds on transmissions and have had the same results every time.

OP, it's easier then you think and plenty of write ups as well.

 

I find this encouraging ... thanks. (I want to install my LSD.)

 

You're input shaft bearing is going bad. Mine's been bad for about a year now, and I have the exact same car as you, and it's still going strong.

@notaracist good info, I will definitely consider this.

 

Installing a diff is even easier than replacing an ISB. Knowing you (at least, from your posts), you should easily be able to handle it

As far as "which bearing is bad", it's pretty easy to figure out.

Noise when:
Foot down on clutch - throwout bearing
Foot off clutch - input shaft bearing
foot on and off - pilot bearing

 

That really isn't true. Replacing the diff requires removing everything an ISB job require, plus the diff. It also involves shimming the diff. It's not hard, but it is harder than an ISB replacement.


I have seen a bad pilot bearing act exactly like a bad ISB, only saw it once, but I have seen it.

 

The transmissions I've rebuilt, I always follow FSM procedure...which involves speccing and re-shimming anyway But hey, you don't have to pull the ISB to do the diff, so a diff job has that going for it! I guess saying they're both equal would be more accurate.

That's interesting. Do you have pics of the pilot bearing? I'm curious to see exactly how it failed. The only way I imagine that happening is if it had failed laterally which is...beyond weird for a bearing.

 

Unless you're swapping a case (or case half), the diff itself, or diff bearings there's really no need to check clearances. I almost never bother with new diff bearings either as they almost never go bad (to date I've seen one that I can recall, had some minor roughness)

As far as the ISB goes, unless it's really bad and the inner race has come out (those suck!) it's really easy to pull the ISB. Stick a small prybar in the tube the input shaft goes in and hit the handle with a hammer to knock it out.

No, I never bothered to take a pic, it was still in one piece, lots of red rust, but still moved, very rough though. Sounded terrible, fully expected to find a bad ISB, but didn't.

 

Btw, a bearing separator or puller is not normally necessary when working on a D-series trans, normally you can just flip the shaft over, bring it down hard on a block of hardwood and the gears just slide off. You can usually do the same with a B-series but it takes more attempts, K-series generally requires a press.

 

It can be a throwout bearing if the noise goes away when you put your foot on the clutch. Usually, that's either a raspy noise or a squeaking noise. The bearing has play when spinning freely....putting pressure on it ssqueees the two halves together. It's counter intuitive....but very common.

 

Yeah, you can definitely get away without using a press or gear puller for the main and countershafts. As for not needing a bearing puller for the ISB...well, they've always been severely damaged when I've rebuilt transmissions, so I've always needed a bearing puller. I'd imagine you can get away without one if the ISB isn't shot to ****, but since most people will drive on a bad ISB for a while until they finally get fed up enough to do it...

 

For an overhaul/full rebuild you need more than just a gear puller, you need a press. You ain't just sliding it back together after you've pulled the shafts apart. At least shouldn't be able to with new parts.

Just to replace the Input Shaft Bearing (ISB) you can get away with the tools you described and also snap ring pliers make it a little easier to open and close the case.

Also with the full rebuild you need the special Honda only loading tool so you can determine the proper shim.

It's the press that has prevented me from doing a full rebuild of either of my D series transmissions.

The Honda specialty tool for D series is about 150 bucks total with collar and all last I checked.

You can see the fun I had replacing the ISB in my dining room of my Condo in this thread here.

Of course after catching up with the thread that I missed while writing this..... I now wonder if I could slide new carbon synchros from Synchrotech and the gears without a press....... O.o

 

Not on a Honda, the throwout bearing only starts turning when you put your foot on the clutch pedal and take up the freeplay. Some other manufacturers have a setup where the throwout bearing turns all the time (My F-150 is like this) but not Honda. The only way it's turning all the time is if the pushrod on the master cylinder is adjusted to a point that there is no freeplay.

You don't need a press either. Large open end wrenches, sockets and a hammer work fine to reinstall the gears, they don't tap on that hard.

You don't need that either. With everything removed from the case install the diff, remove the shim from the top half of the case. replace it with a piece of solder. Reinstall the top half of the case and tighten the bolts. Take it back apart, measure the now crushed solder to get your shim size.

 

OP, If you are capable of replacing a clutch then it shouldn't cost much to have someone replace the ISB for you once the transmission is out.

 

I would suggest doing this. Pop out that old clutch, grab a stage 1 Exedy clutch kit, and bolt that sucker in, and take the tranny to ye olde dad's gay-rage, and have the internals replaced. Bolt that sucker back on, and you are ready to rock and roll for at least another 150k miles y0.

 

I must say, learn something new every day. Good stuff 94EG8. Too think I could have done so much more when I had it open.

Talking about clutch noises on Honda's, my clutch to this day does similiar to the OP. Makes noise when the clutch pedal is not depressed, and goes away when the pedal depresses...

I know it's not ISB or Pilot bearing, was there from brand new both bearings and same is true of the throw out bearing.

Can't hear it when driving due to my exhaust I figure so can't verify if the noise is in gear like OP (which I suspect is probably the ISB for the OP).

Does the pressure plate spin when the clutch is engaged and can stop spinning once you disengage (push the pedal down) the clutch?

If the plate does spin, is it possible for this to make noise?

It was an Exedy clutch kit but I've heard mixed reviews of their pressure plates so started thinking maybe my noise issue that I don't pay attention to any more might be related to this.

 

I have had plenty of pilot bearings make noise after just replacing being defective by the manufacturer. Just put a competition stage 2 clutch on with about 400 miles on the kit and the pilot bearing was faulty. Replaced with OEM factory bearing and no issues.

Seem to always have this problem with aftermarket clutch kits except exedy lol.

 

Mybad. That was a S2000 issue/diagnostic. You're right about honda push type clutches not spinning the bearing all the time.

 

The pressure plate is bolted directly to the flywheel and is always turning at the same speed as the engine. It's the clutch disc that stops turning when you depress the clutch pedal and starts turning when you let it out.

No, it isn't.

Exedy/Daikin made most of the OEM clutches for Honda (the Japanese production '92 - '95 Civics usually came with an FCC clutch, but US/Canadian production are always Daikin/Exedy) I've never had any Issues with the pressure plates, even when the disc has 300,000kms on it and worn out the pressure plate is usually still good.

 

As soon as you said this the image clicked in my head.... I don't know why I was thinking the finger section spun inside the plate housing. The whole thing is attached and spinning as one piece with the pressure plate.

I needed that swift kick in the head, thank you. As you can tell, I didn't do my clutch at the time. Had it done when I had the motor swap being done with all the main seals, oil pan gasket and tower seals. Needed the car back for Monday and I knew with my lack of tools, experience and proper work area, there was no way I could do all that in a day or two.

Didn't go with OEM throwout bearing, just used the one with the Exedy/Diaken kit. Same is true for the Pilot bearing.

 

I had the same issues and i fixed it by getting new tranny. Changed the clutch at the first try and i bought the performance clutch. At first the mechanic told me that it is normal when you put in a performance clutch on it. But month after installing it and knowing that it was normal my tranny gave up on me and so i decided to get a new one instead of rebuilding it back up and the noise was gone and my car is running strong.

 

In my case, I did a tranny swap already with no change to the sound or behavior. I've been beating the snot out of this back up tranny for 4 months now without issue.

I think it's the non OEM pilot bearing, still felt smooth when we pulled the tranny and so I deal with a low wirring sound when the clutch is engaged.

No big deal, I'll leave it be until it becomes a drivability issue. I don't get grinds like the OP, that's where I think the OP's issue is the common ISB issue. The only way to know for sure though is to drop the tranny.