Sup HT,

So here's my dilemma, it's at the point now where I don't know what I'm doing wrong and figured I could post up my problems for some input. I've searched and searched, just haven't found the solution for my case.

I put new Integra calipers on my 88 sedan (17cl14vn), milled mounting brackets, etc. I had Integra calipers on it before, but the previous owner shaved them down for wheel clearance (retarded) and needed to be replaced. Once I put them on, I bled the brakes and the pedal just goes straight to the floor (it didn't do this prior to the new calipers). I figured I didn't bleed correctly, so I did it several more times, no change. Thought then that I might have blown the seal in the MC, so I replaced that as well as my rusty booster because I was taking everything off and decided to replace it while I was at it. Bled the **** out of everything, bench bled the MC for seriously like 30 minutes straight and then bled my brakes again like 20 times. I can't get the pedal to firm up. When the car is shut off, the pedal feels like it is firm, but then as soon as I start it up, the pedal has no resistance. The calipers do not tighten on the rotor.

What the **** am I doing wrong?

Things I haven't done:
- Replace brake lines

 

After thinking, I have another question. The new booster that I put on had a round gasket that goes between the MC and Booster, but the new master cylinder also had a round gasket that does the same thing.

Is there only supposed to be one or the other? Since I replaced both and they each had a new one come with it, should I have taken one of the gaskets off? When I was looking at the manual, it appears that there is only one gasket.......Could this be the problem and would it cause this pedal to be worthless?

 

Well, screw you guys, can't help a brother do anything around here..... hahah, jk

After continuing to mess with this ****, I think I finally found the culprit (FINGERS CROSSED). Anyways, after triple/quadruple checking everything I've been doing, I unbolted the front right brake line as I was looking for problems and saw what looked like a wet spot up inside the bracket on the line, so I wiped it off and got everything dry and test it. Sure enough, it got progressively wetter (nothing crazy, like shooting brake fluid out) but I think it might be the leak! Ordered new lines already, so if this doesn't fix it, I'm gonna ******* choke someone

Here are some pictures (the lines were dried a short time before I took these and they're not as wet as they were when I was testing it, but you get the idea and everyone always wants pictures)

 

You have a leak.

Find it.

Congratulations.

 

Its an emotional battle, too. Thanks for the support

 

You may have a leak in the brake lines. If I were you I would replace them with some steel braided brake lines. Much more heavy and durable.

 

Look on the inside of your car against the fire if it is wet your MC is leaking, also check vacuum line running to the intake manifold that your not loosing vacuum to the booster.

 

I recently did a brake fluid change on my 2002 Trailblazer LTZ. I started from RR, LR, RF, then ended at LF. While at LR, I accidentally let the fluid almost completely drain from the MC. I quickly filled it up and started the pedal pumping processes. While pumping the pedal, we noticed that fluid was NOT coming through our line connected to the caliper. I tightened up the bleed valve and pumped the brake pedals which always fell to the floor with the car on or off.

At this point, I figure that I let too much air get in the system when I let the MC almost get empty. So I continued to the FR caliper. After 4 pumps, no fluid was coming through. After the 5th the pump, I can see fluid bleeding as it should! We tightened that side up and restarted the process with the LR caliper while keeping the MC reservoir full of fluid the entire time.

This might be your problem as well. It wouldn't hurt to re-bleed if you're already working on it and make sure the MC is full. I've heard of people having to "bench-bleed" their MC's because of they let it get too empty. I hope this helps you.

 

Thanks for the insight on that my man, unfortunately, that's not the solution to my problem. I am very cognizant about keeping the fluid level in the MC full so I won't have to bench bleed the MC again.

I have replaced both front lines, MC, brake booster, and both front calipers and I have bled the entire circuit (all four points) about a million times, no but seriously, at least a dozen complete rounds.

I don't know what the **** is wrong. I think my next plan of action is to rebuild the calipers even though they were sold to me as good to go.....

*Does anyone know the part number for front caliper rebuild kits (94-01 Integra front calipers 17cl14vn) from a place like Advance Auto/Napa/etc? I don't feel like paying $40 bucks from Honda.

 

That sucks, man. Is the flow of fluid the same from all 4 corners of the car if/when you disconnect the lines? If fluid is moving so should your calipers if they're good. Or maybe check the lines for leaks while someone is pumping the brake pedal?

It just hit me that you're switching and swapping OEM parts. What other brake system components are you using from the Integra? Are you using the Integra MC? If not, then you're probably not pushing enough fluid to those calipers.

On my Civic, I installed ITR front setup with BB and MC from a GSR. Works perfect, pedal is firm. I can't recall if I tried to press the pedal with the ITR setup and stock BB/MC. I'm not sure if it's necessary to swap BB to an Integra but I'd for certain swap the MC to an Integra unit if you have not already.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes-54/brakeexperts-brake-chart-thread-civic-brake-upgrades-ef-eg-ek-integras-3044628/

Read the section about Master Cylinders in that sticky link above. BrakeExpert explains in detail what you need for your conversion. This flow chart is the same chart I used to convert my front and rear brakes successfully.

 

Thats a good point about not going to a bigger MC. And no, I kept the rear drums.

The reason I did not go to an Integra MC was because I was simply replacing parts that were already on there. I had the same calipers on the car already (17cl14vn) but the previous owner shaved them down for some retarded way of making clearance for smaller wheels. This eventually caused one caliper to crack (big surprise there). So I sourced the same calipers with milled brackets to fit properly. Prior to doing any of this, the pedal was firm and worked fine, which is what boggles my mind about having this problem now, when all I really did was replace some calipers.

That last point is what logically should point to the problem, the calipers must need new seals because when you really think about it, that should have been singled out in the beginning. The piston is not moving when the pedal is pressed. Also, the booster was completely rusted and needed to be replaced regardless of working condition or not, there was no paint on it left, all rust. So, I was never really thinking that the booster was the problem FYI.

 

Yeah I'd be wondering WTF too if I were to replace parts that worked before, lol. Your local auto parts stores should have rebuilt/reman calipers for cheap. In CA, Autozone has them for 40 a side with a core of 20. I'd go that route simply for the warranty. Maybe this is an option for you before you replace to a bigger MC?

 

Yeah, it's been pretty frustrating, especially because every time I thought for sure that I "fixed it this time", it didn't fix it and I'd end up throwing ****, haha.

I just looked up the parts for caliper repair kits on rockauto.com for like $2 a piece, so I'll give that a shot first. If that doesn't work, I don't know what else to do....it'd be a shame to have to buy ANOTHER set of calipers and ANOTHER master cylinder, but we'll see.

Thanks for the brainstorming session man

 

For sure. Keep us posted. I'm sure your problem and resolution will help someone one day. And remember to get the Integra MC if you decide to go that route Cheers.

 

Did you bleed starting from the rear or just did the fronts ? Sorry i dont have time to read all the posts if you stated this already. You have to start at the right rear brake and then left rear brake then right front then left front. do not pump in between each opening of the bleeder. just press down open the bleeder and then close it and then up on the pedal DO NOT PUMP until all four are bled and be sure the master stays full

 

Yes. Thanks for the input. I bled the entire circuit in many variations including the common theory of furthest from MC first as well as the cross circuit variation, where you do FL, FR, RR, RL due to saying Honda has a cross circuit system or something.

I'm bleeding these brakes in my dreams now, ive done it so many times, haha.

As an update, my caliper rebuild kit should be here sometime when i get home on monday, hopefully fixes it.

 

Since bleeding didn't fix the problem chek the calipers. Were they used? If so they might be seized. Also check the bleeder screws, they might be blocked as well. What about the brake lines?
As far as the MC it should only have one seal and that preferable new. Check the interior for MC leaks (by the fire wall where the pedals are).
Lastly I know you bled the brakes tons of times but I would do them once more with a vacuum machine (borrow or rent one?). Happened to me and in the end I bought a brake bleeding tool and that was the end of my problems. Downside is that you might go through 3-4 cans of brake fluid to get all the air out.
My bet is on the calipers and the bleed screws.
Good luck and hang in there. You ll get it.

 

I agree, bud. I am pretty sure it is the calipers. I bought the rebuild kit from Rockauto and just haven't had the time to work on it lately. My life is pretty crazy right now, but if that doesn't fix it, I am absolutely stumped. Yes, the calipers were used, so in hindsight, I should have just saved the hassle and replaced the gaskets prior to installing them onto the car. Good idea on the bleed screws, I'll toss a new set of those on while I'm at it since theyre only a buck or so each. Thanks for the tips, I appreciate it.

 

check throttle cable. if it keeps happening put lock tight on throttle cable bolt.

 

I don't see what the throttle cable has to do with this, but thanks for the effort?

Good news though, I fixed it, pedal feels ******* great, **** stops soo nice now. Man, feels great to have it working again. I rebuilt the calipers (super easy, btw, in my opinion compressed air is a must, otherwise, I couldn't see how it would be possible to replace the dust boot), new crush washers again, bled the brakes very very thoroughly for like the 100th time and bingo.

What a pain in the *** this has been, but now that nearly all brake components have been replaced, I feel like the car should be much safer now, haha. Thanks for all of the input fellas

 

Very glad to hear that! Cheers!

 

Read through this thread as I just bought a delsol for the daughter and my daughter and myself are doing it up. The brake pedal goes straight to the floor. I have ordered pads for front and rear as they were both very low and have also ordered a MC just in case. When the MC arrives, we will fit the pads and bleed the system, if this doesn't work I'm going to re kit the callipers. Glad you got your problem solved and thanks for the info as I may need it.

 

Good job on the calipers! When I started in the 80's we rebuilt every caliper we put brakes on, it is pretty easy.

The other day at the shop some of the guys were stuck because they'd gotten new calipers for a car and had wound up with two left sides (misboxed); another right side wasn't avaible for another week. All ASE techs, but none of them knew how to rebuild a caliper - I did it in 3 minutes, transferring the new piston and seals into the old casting, which was fine. Its definitely a skill that can save you a lot of time and money on occasion.