EDIT: Although I had ruled out the B18C1 on price, I realized it could work out if picked one off of a junkyard Integra.

I'm looking to add more power to my Civic, but can't decide between three possible engine swaps.

B16A SiR:
Pros
Cheap and simple for such an improvement over the D16A6
The only mod required will be wiring for VTEC
Cons
Lower end of the B engine series

B16A SiR II:
Pros
More Hp/Torque
Down the road, option of making into a Poorman's Type R
Preps the car for a future swap to a non OBD0 engine
Cons
OBD0 to OBD1 conversion required
Cable actuated clutch to hydraulic clutch conversion required or purchase separate from the engine of B16 cable transmission

B18C1
Pros
Most ideal engine of the three; if it goes in, I would most likely keep it in for the duration of the Civic's life
Cons
May be in questionable state or have high mileage as I would only be able to afford one scooped up from a junkyard

I don't know whether I should go with the budget choice, or put in more work/money to have greater performance and more possibilities down the road without additional conversions required.
To those who suggest I just opt for a MiniMe, I'd like to have the option to go turbo available.


What would you recommend?

 

If you are going to swap b series don't get a b16, b16s are stupid.

As far as b series go, gsr, b20 or b20/vtec are the ways to go. ls motors are slow and type r motors are over priced.

Something is wrong with your d16a6 though, if you can barely go 85. When I had an a6 with bolt-ons it ran low 15s, spun the stock 13s in second and topped out at around 115mph.

I think the perfect motor for you is f22. Super cheap and tons of torque.

 

Also a few questions I have:

As both of these motors are JDM, is it correct to say that I'll only find them online? No possibility of finding one in a junkyard raid?

As SiR engines, the axles and shift linkage that come with it should fit in fine, right?

After the swap, will I need to fill up the tank with higher octane fuel? I've never had a car that I didn't just fill up with regular.

Is it worth it to look for an LSD transmission or is any B16A transmission just as good?

Currently, the car's transmission is auto; any of the additional parts necessary to complete the swap to manual (pedals, mounts, etc) could be picked up from a junkyard EF Civic EX or LX and nothing additional is required, right?

 

People swap F series motors into Civics? In all of my research, I haven't seen that anywhere...

Ideally I would opt for a GSR swap, but with it's price and the cost of the additional parts required for it to work in an EF Civic, it's a bit out my price range.

...Although I could raid local junkyards for an Integra with an intact GSR; avoiding the high price online distributors charge.

 

With all do respect, you should go take a long walk off a short pier with the "b16's are stupid. You own a d16... Which one is the "stupid" one here??.

The b16 is a great motor. Thick cyclinder walls compared to others, perfect r/s ratio and decent compression numbers. Imo, the most reliable dohc motor honda makes. Now it is torqueless so some extent but that's where a turbo comes in to play. I've seen a lot of stock b16 motors making 250+whp with no problems at all with the motor. The r/s comes it to play. With the right head setup, the motor can spin 9500 with no problems. That is perfect for a big turbo big power setup. They are high way killers.

So if it was me and I just wanted to do a daily driving project and money was a issue, $2100 shipped you can get a b16a+lsd ys1 trans. Perfect platform to work off of. Then if you want more torque but don't want spray or turbo. Find a b18c short block and build a poor mans type r or b18a and so ls/vtec.

 

The issue with going for a B16a is that I could only get it shipped.
I'm thinking that it might just be cheaper to raid local junkyards for 94-01 Integra GSRs with intact engines and go from there. I'm most likely not gonna find a JDM engine in a junkyard.

 

These swaps get expensive real quick if you cant afford to get a decent GSR then that should worry you. You should budget atleast the cost of the motor to be able to get everything else.

 

Well how much should I expect to pay for a GSR? hmotorsonline has just the engine at $2100. Is this what I should expect to pay regardless of where I'm getting it from?

 

What you need to really decide is what are you wanting out of the car. You can't go fast with shallow pockets. So if your wanting to have a good motor get a b16a swap. You get a decent lsd trans and great reliable motor for $2100 shipped. A b18c is a great motor but its between $1800-2100 just for the motor, not even a ecu included. A full gsr swap is $3000 and $3300 for a lsd trans. Then you'll have to convert to obd1 and cable to hydro. So do you have $4000? If not, then that is not the swap for you. Do you know what's cheaper then a b16 swap and a tons cheaper then gsr? B20b. They are very underrated from the factory. They will beat gsr's with eqaul mods and a b16 trans. They have a way better torque curve that is usable. And this is from a dig 0-85 to 100. They run $550-750. If I were you, id get the b20b p8r for $650 and a b16 trans for $600. Be in the complete deal less then $1700 and beat a lot of simple swap people. But if you wanna slowly peice stuff together, then buy what you want the first time.

 

Yeah, probably best if I just save up for what I really want instead of rushing in just to get a bit more performance right away. Looks like I won't be doing much tinkering until I've got $4000 saved up...

 

That would be a good plan.

1 thing though man, don't believe 75% of what you read. There is SOOO much false info on these forums and don't do the "cool thing". People saying do k swaps, yea if you want to WASTE $7,000+ dollars when you can do a h2b for $3500 and walk on k swaps. H2b is the best swap for high horsepower drag car. If your wanting a daily, b series is the best bet. One thing to consider is how often do you want to mess/tune it. Also, what's the highest horsepower 4cyl you've been in, honestly? 200whp 150wtq in a 2200lbs car will run 12's in the 1/4. That's faster then most v8's. My stock gsr 97 civic 4dr would beat all 5.0/4.6 mustangs. Don't spend tons of time worring about "have to have the highest hp honda motor cause that's what everyone else has". Worry more about how to get a 150whp car to be fast. Looking at your trans gearing, lsd, sticky tires, weight reduction and the biggest thing, DRIVING SKILLS... That's the issues you should look at. My good friend has a 89 crx, stock b16 with a Full Race ram horn setup with a safe 223whp that beats ls1 camaros dues to he made the lower horsepower work for him. His car weighs 18xxlbs. That's half of the camaros so he only really needs half the power. He's 70whp less but revs 8500rpms and only weighs half of their cars. There is way more then 1 way to make a car fast besides high number... I see all motor h2b civics beating modded camaros on the freeway and from a dig and they have less the half the liters. 5.7l v8 vs. 2.2l i4. Honestly, a b16 would be a very naticable differance from most single cams.

My main point is, don't just surround yourself in all this deep pocket motor building and look at how to make your pockets and power work for you.

 

This is just IMHO, I'm no expert and if I am off base i'm sure others help correct me or provide counter arguments.

When people ask:
"What's the BEST engine/turbo for me?"
It's very important to realize that your "thought process" (goals, opinion & rationalization of cost effectiveness) will change as YOU PERSONALLY learn more, work on cars, drive yours or experience other cars with different setups first hand.

I’ll try to keep it short & not get into too much of the ‘gray’ case exceptions. (lol I know some of the other guys are probably LOL right now).
First, I’m assuming this is for NA application
Secondly, understand that Bvtec or B non vtec engine, you’ll be using the same mounts to install the engine into your civic. The difference will be in the wiring.
Lastly, whatever motor you get spend money on a ITR, B16 or GSR tranny if possible (in that order).



B16a PROs:
VTEC technology.... better than slice bread.
They don’t cost very much like they use to. $1500 or less is what I would pay. Short blocks in need of rebuilds are often same price as LS blocks $150-200 max. Ideal RS ratio which makes it very rev friendly. Bvtec heads (b16 or gsr) flow +240cfm & the engine loves to breath. Most B16 with budget bolton’s will make 150whp/105tq. With some cams & nicer intake manifold, header, cams& valvestrain you can get idealy around 180whp/125tq. To get a B16 to nearly 190whp it’s going to require some head work & higher compression pistons.
B16a CONs:
77.4mm stroke :ghey:
Some people call it “the little engine that could”… “the torqueless monstor”
Low toque makes driving under 4500rpms not as enjoyable in heavier cars (+2400lbs). In lighter cars in the -2200lbs range it may not be as noticeable.
Short gear tranny WILL BE A MUST with a B16 motor. Anything beyond the 200whp for a true 1.6 B16 is going to be uncommon since people are turned off by $ to whp return on investment compared to other Honda NA options.
B16a Conclusion for NA:
A great engine with proven history & legacy in the Honda import scene. :down: Nobody will look down on you cause you have a B16 cause it’s a respectable engine. B16 RS ratio is awesome but don’t get too caught up in the RS ratio argument. RS ratio it’s not something that will win you a race, make power or be a decision maker on getting the engine. Personally it's on my "must have" engine list for the garage collection.



B18a “LS” PROs:
89mm stroke matters when you’re trying to make the most out of a stock Bseries block. The engines are cheap & plentiful. Expect to pay $150-300 for one. Sometimes people give them away for like $50 just to make room. Most LS with budget bolton’s will make 135whp/125tq. With some cams & nicer intake manifold, header, cams& valvestrain you can around 150whp/130tq.
B18a “LS” CONs:
Beyond 150whp $ per whp gain becomes very depressing. Their head in every way is inferior to VTEC heads (valve size, ports). Rockers may get questionable around 8000rpms. Very restrictive stock intake manifold compared to other OEM manifolds.
B18a “LS” Conclusion for NA use:
Even if you get a B16 tranny on a stock LS, the engine just won’t have enough edge to keep a B16 from creeping pass you in 4th gear due to lack of RPMs.
Go LS for now if you want to build a LSV down the road.



B20 PROs:
Is like a LS motor on steroids. B20 has 84mm vs. LS 81mm bore pistons. Share same crank/rods. JDM longblock are about $700 shipped (IMHO not too bad). Most B20 with budget bolton’s will make 150whp/130tq. With some cams & nicer intake manifold, header, cams& valvestrain you can around 170whp/145tq.
B20 CONs:
Same cons as LS, plus they have different cylinder wall casting design (nothing to do with thickness). There have been cases of B20 sleeves cracking under racing conditions or a lot of abuse. Google pictures of B20 sleeves vs. B16/B18 sleeves. Limited budget pistons you can get (unlike the LS/B16/GSR)
B20 Conclusion for NA use:
This is one of those engine I would only sugguest for limited people. People who I’m unsure of how far they want to take on this Honda hobby (like my little brother) but still have good power. B20 with bolton’s & B16 trannys eats B16 & holds it's ground will with most GSR swapped civics. :thumb:



LSV/B20V PROs:
Bang for buck & keep it simple to make good power! You get the lowend torque of the LS/B20 & rooftop rev freedom & power of the Bvtec head. Most LSV/B20V with budget bolton’s will make 170-180whp/140tq. With some cams & nicer intake manifold, header, cams& valvestrain you can get idealy around 200whp/150tq. Accomplishing +220whp requires head work, higher compression pistons & properly tuned cams & ems tuning.
LSV/B20V CONs:
You can get away with stock LS/B20 block, but it’s only a matter of time when rod bolt backs out from all the high revs. Better to rebuild with stock rods & arp rod bolts. LSVTEC “kit” is about $230 (with oem head gasket). Make sure you properly tap the head & oil lines don’t leak.
LSV/B20V Conclusion for NA use:
Rebuilding it from ground up would be about $1600 for basic LSV/B20V. If you have a budget of $3,000 on the engine, you can build a pretty nice LSV/B20V with plenty of power to fend off 350whp turbo Hondas. :eek2:



B18c “GSR” PROs:
Great balance of some tq & topend power 87.2mm. No need to run vtec oil lines like you do in LSV/B20V. You can simply install LS rods/crank into the GSR block & still keep the oil squirters. With budget bolton’s will make 160-175whp/120tq. With some cams & nicer intake manifold, header, cams& valvestrain you can get idealy around 200whp/135tq. Accomplishing +220whp requires head work, higher compression pistons & properly tuned cams & ems tuning.
B18c “GSR” CONs:
The engine is more expensive than B16/B20/LS & even these old 10yr old motors can cost $1800-2500.
B18c “GSR” Conclusion for NA use:
If you are unsure of tackling doing a LSV & can afford buying a GSR, go for it !:D

 

Very informative post, thanks!

 

@charlie- good info for this guy man. The only thing I have to say on the b16 half is, r/s ratio may not "win you the race" but it'll defianlty help you after the race to get home lol. And what I mean by that is, there is a lot less stress on the bottom end with having a good r/s ratio. less chance spinning a rod bearing. Also, it haveing short rods with 8mm rod bolts will help with not breaking a rod (unlike the ls longer rods with 7mm bolts). For a n/a build, b16 isn't going to be your power house but, it'll definaly last along time. The ls/b20 would be great for a daily driver.

If you go turbo, just remember that vtec won't matter. After pushing 350whp, vtec will be like shooting at bb gun at a tank. It may scratch the paint but it ain't gonna do much. Now, vtec is a must for n/a honda builds. F/I is a whole new game.

All in all, there isn't a bad honda motor to choice from when it comes to the b18,b16,b20. All can make good power and can be reliable. Just choose, do I want a ls vavle cover or do I want a vtec valve cover haha.

 

Why not the B20z for another $100? I'm asking because I'm trying to decide on which one.

 

A b20z is a good option. There are 4 different options of good b20's. B20b low comp, b20b high comp, b20b p8r (best if you plan on modding do to the 33mm valves and good flowing head) and b20z whcih is a usdm and the other 3 are jdm. If it was me, id go b20b with the p8r head UNLESS your doing a b20/vtec, then find the highest comp b20 or the cheapest and put higher comp pistons in it.

 

You mad, bro? B16 is the most pointless, gutless, worthless b swap out there.

I never even said that I still had a D16 or that a D16 is better than a B16.

D16 is better than a B16, but that is a different conversation all together.


OP: B20 swap would be great for you, F22 would probably be too involved. Why not just figure out what is wrong with your a6, swap it to manual and turbo? It would cost less than a basic b swap and easily run 13s.

But what do I know, better just decide based on the valve cover.

 

wow.... never heard anyone say it like that, even well known engine builders, or guys that have fast cars don't talk that much smack about the b16....

 

Let me feed the troll, damnit.

 

Wow, you are officialy the dumbest person here if you think for 1 second that the d16 is better then a b16. I'm not saying a b16 is all mighty but, its a **** load better then a d16. The b16 can do 280+whp boosted. A d16 be careful just trying to do 200whp. So which one is better? Id go with a b series and if anyone doesn't agree, its cause 1) they are to lazy to swap 2) trying to be different or 3) which you qualify for, dumb as ****.

And the valve cover thing is a joke.