Just looking for opinions for my build. I'm gonna tear into it next week hopefully. Looking to make around 400hp
How does this setup look?
B17 block with CSS
Crower rods and pistons stock bore not sure on compression ratio yet (opinions?)
Stock crank
Head is b16 going to do pnp and port matching spring retainers ect
Not sure what cams yet again opinions?
Greddy 05h 18g
Fmic
750cc injectors with walbro 255
S2 im

I have searched and haven't found many b17 builds. This will be my first 4 cyl build and I know I have much to learn. I'm looking for constructive critism and hopefully a point in the right direction not an all out flame war

 

http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html


The B17, which came in the 92-93 GSR, is a VTEC motor which has some characteristics that need to be addressed when turbocharging. The 9.7:1 compression ratio must be kept in mind when tuning the car. With the higher compression ratio less boost will be required to reach a horsepower goal than it would with a lower compression engine. Also, due to the VTEC system, cam timing on the B17 raises some issues that need attention. The valve overlap, intake and exhaust valves open at the same time, can lead to exhaust gas reversion issues. Reversion occurs during valve overlap and exhaust gasses are drawn back into the cylinder. Obviously this is not a good thing when you are forcing an already hot, pressurized intake charge into the cylinder. It can lead to detonation and generally poor performance. Fortunately with the use of adjustable cam gears the overlap can be tuned out. B17, and all other VTEC motors, will put out more horsepower with less boost than a non-VTEC motor, about 14% on average. Stock B17s have seen 300hp while built motors have seen 500+ horsepower.

 

Thanks. There is a lot of good info there. I should add that this is going in a del sol. As of now the motor is a moor man type r. It's using b16 pistons but these are getting changed so I can do any cr I want. A few years back I Turbod the car of course I used a thicker head gasket to lower cr a bit but before I could get it tuned I found bearing in the Pan. This is why I am rebuilding. Also with 93 octane hard to find where I am what's yOur opinions on water meth? And I have a 2 stage boost controller already.

 

Meth/water is a great alternative to utilize, provided that it is installed correctly and the fail-safe features are activiated. That works fantastic.

 

anyone running high compression (9.5-10:1) with low to moderate boost? i guess i have a few options i can run lower compression and up the boost but my turbo isnt very big and will most likely become over worked and loose efficiency so i would have to get a new turbo, or i can keep the higher compression and use less boost and still make a good amount of power. it should still be reliable with a spot on tune. any thoughts?
do you think i can meet my goal of 400 with this set up?

 

Higher compression is fine, I have seen up to 11:1 but 10.5 or 10:1 would be fine.. Just make sure you use a good tuner.

 

I was just gonna street tune it. That should be fine eh?

I'm kidding I'll go get it dyno tuned at a reputable shop.
I'm leaning toward high compression and low boost. That combined with the longer stroke of the b17 should be a fun little motor.

 

8 pounds on a stock b17 here, on e85, 750 injectors, walbro and a good street tune here.

 

What's your car making hp wise?

 

That turbo isn't going to make 400whp...that'd be the place to start. Its true you wont find many B17 builds, but a B16 setup is essentially the same thing. You could follow those setups and be within a reasonable margin. As for the compression ratio, that depends on your fuel choice and turbo. I would always error on the higher side because low compression setups are awful when they're out of boost; furthermore, it takes more boost to make the same power (on a low compression setup vs a high). I'm sure someone will elaborate on this...

 

Your turbo choice (TD05H 18G) is going to be your limiting factor here.

That turbo wont make 400 whp at any psi, you will max it out around 325 whp, and that will be running high boost, no matter what c/r you start with.

This turbo just isn't the right choice.

If you want a higher c/r, lower boost set up to make 400 whp, you can start with 10:1 c/r pistons and use a 57 or 60 trim t3/t4E turbo, even then you will probably end up in the high teens ( 16-18 psi) or so to make 400 whp, maybe a bit less with water/meth.

 

I already have the turbo. That's why I am using it. I guess I'll use it and see what kind of numbers I can make. If I'm not happy with it I'll take your advice and get a different Turbo. What do you think is a more realistic goal? Also thank you for your advise on cr. I will admit I don't know much about this kind of stuff. I'm more a small block chevy guy. Thanks for the constructive criticism

 

He answered your question right here ChRiS_p123. 325whp is only if you change the wastegate, downpipe elbow, etc. With what you have stock, you'll make about 280whp, as the wastegate will be maxxed out on that particular turbo.

Using a different turbo will also mean a different manifold, downpipe, etc, as the configuration of the TD05-18G is unique to that setup.

 

What do you mean by with what I have stock? I don't understand. When I'm done everything will be upgraded. Also you say that the waste gate will be maxed. Is this because the size of the gate itself is small or because the internal spring is set at around 10 psi. I do have a 2 stage boost controller so I can bump up the boost. I also have 4 bar map sensor. If it is because the physical size of the waste gate can I weld it closed and run an external waste gate?

 

By "stock" I think he means the greddy manifold/wastegate/downpipe.

Also you can expect by using the greddy stuff to get less than 300 whp.

Yes the physical size of the internal wastgate is the problem, it is too small and so is the greddy downpipe, they really choke the turbo up.

If you were to weld the internal wsstegate shut and run an external, where would you bolt the external to? The greddy manifold does not have an external gate flange.

If you were to "upgrade" the manifold, the downpipe and go to an external wastegate, you would be wasting a lot of money to do this stuff for the 18G turbo. You would be much better off getting this stuff for a T3 flanged turbo. The only thing you would be short of is a T3 based turbo, which you can buy brand new for about $600, then you would be ready to go for 400 whp.

If your going to use the 18G, just bolt it all on and expect 275 whp. The stock internals can actually handle that much power, forged rods and pistons aren't even needed.

If you are going to for sure put forged internals in, i would stay around stock c/r of 10:1.

 

^^ Exactly.

Even a boost controller won't help you over 300whp because of the small size spring of the wastegate actuator. It won't even make 14psi of pressure without it reducing down to about 11psi because of the spring.. Even if you adjusted the actuator arm itself.

 

Ok so the turbo I have is no good for what I want. What turbo do you guys recommend. I know you said t3 but what would be a good size to go with? Also what kind of manifold should I use? Is this greddy kit worth anything to sell?

 

Budget (maximum willingness to pay for a turbo)?
Power level?
Use of the car?
exhaust manifold?


get specific..

 

ok here's my situation, i am currently selling my truck once it sells i will have about 5000 to dump into this project, the car will be a weekend car not a dd. with my budget of 4-5 grand i need to buy pistons rods valve springs and retainers, cams bigger injectors as i only have 440's now
pistons- 600
rods- 700
cams-700
injectors- 300
springs and retainers-300
total 2600
so i have a few grand theoretically to spend, with that being said i do not want nor need top of the line parts, but i dont want cheap ebay junk that will break in 6 months either.
my goal is 400whp safely
as far as exhaust manifolds go i dont need anything fancy just something to get the job done.
i would like a turbo that doesnt have a massive amount of lag either. i would like it to spool fairly early and carry boost through the entire rpm band i dont want a engine that is a slug off the line and have to wait till 6000 rpm for full boost.

 

shodan, after reading this post further i'm beginning to wonder if something hasnt been done to this turbo, you say i wont make over 14 psi with a boost controller but i was making more than 10 on a the stock wastegate without the boost contoller connected. is it possible that there is a different compressor wheel in this thing? perhaps the turbo has been modified that i dont know about. i didnt buy it new, regardless i understand that my goals are unreasonable with this turbo and i will look into another, i'm just trying to learn more. i'm not doubting you knowledge or being hot headed here lol

 

check out this build.. and $700 for rods is not needed. neither is that much for camshafts.

start on page 12---go ALL the way to page 85

http://m.ht-archive.org/showthread.php?t=2951496

real parts, real power, real components. Get a budget to spend for the turbocharger and manifold. give a number like you did everything else.

 

its a b17, the only rods i can find are crower or pauter and both of wich are about 700, if you know of anything cheaper i'll be more than happy to save some money
also, i typo'd the cams meant to put 500. could i reach 400 on gsr cams? its a pr3 b16 head

 

Yes. You can reach 400whp on GSR cams no problem. Your 18g is more than likely not modified, as that is a very unique configuration takes a lot to invest to modify. It may be 9 psi spring but still won't make 400whp.

 

Rather than spending $700 on rods, it'd be easier and cheaper to buy an LS block, get a set of Eagle LS rods, and use your current VTEC head with an LS/VTEC kit. As for the cams, the stock GSR cams will be more than enough. You can upgrade to ITR cams, but even then, they're not more than $4-500. Since you're on somewhat of a budget, i would focus on other parts first rather than worrying about cams. A good manifold/turbo combo will more than make up for the lack of cams...compared to skimping on a shitty setup with ITR cams. Keep It Short and Simple

 

I disagree with going LS vtec, keep your B17 block, going LS vtec wont be any cheaper than the $700 rods, it will just complicate things more.

A set of forged pistons: $450

Forged rods: $700

Springs and retainers: $400

Stock GSR cams: $150

Go-autoworks or spoolin performance ramhorn manifold: $600

Precision entry line 3431 or 6031 turbo: $625