3/7/15 UPDATE new problem *underboost issue* tune related?


Hey everybody just a bit frustrated from not being able to get BBG to work AT ALL (via hondata s300) internal wastegated setup- by no means am i an EXPERIENCED/expert tuner but i do have some^very little expierence with street tuning via chrome/ectune/neptune/s300... THIS IS MY FIRST TIME TRYING TO SET UP BOOST BY GEAR.... CHECK LIST BELOW (TROUBLESHOOTING) THAN MY EXPERIENCES BELOW THEM..

1. I have boost components installed- i have followed (http://www.hamotorsports.com/pwm-boo...tallation.html) and XENOCRON instructions...

2. i have the "NON-HONDATA" mac solenoid (MAC Boost solenoid valve BCS 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA)

3. i have verified that the fused 12v source works i switched it from my wideband/ radio power source (under dash fuse 2nd from left)

4. i have the pinned the wire to A11 (big connector 6 over to the right starting from the left)

5. the solenoid itself clicks when i ground out and apply direct power. its BRAND NEW

6. how i plumbed my solenoid port 1 vent, port 2 wastegate acutator, port 3 boost signal (compressor housing) (http://www.team-integra.net/forum/16...gear-talk.html)

7. NO BOOST LEAKS, vacuum lines are good

SO to my problem is the valve wont hold boost i am assuming it only goes off the wastegate 7.5psi (was at 15psi) and very laggy throttle response and boost is slow and my spool time is drastically slower 1000rpms slower to be exact... i recently switched from a HALMAN MBC to a mac solenoid. I've tried FIX DUTY CYCLE , GEAR BASED DUTY CYCLE, GEAR BASED TARGET BOOST...it seems like what ever i do doesn't change or work...I've tried pressure vs duty cycle values from 10-90% duty cycle, YES the A11 BOX IS CHECKED, NO VARIABLE FREQUENCY (MINE IS SET FOR 31HZ)..,. I've tried 78hz (stock settings) and 20HZ- 25HZ... I've tried maximum boost at 100% and also at 0%... ACTIVATION pressure 4psi. I've tried High/low boost activation always ON. MY solder joints aren't touching and components look good (also purchased new) i can provide my SKI.files and pics of ecu ... am i missing something? or am i doing this wrong i am just stumped no money for a REAL PROFESSIONAL DYNO TUNE + NO GOOD D-SERIES TUNERS IN MY AREA I DO NOT TRUST ANYONE WITHING A 100MILE RADIUS OF ME TO TRY AND TUNE MY CAR =[ any advice or help would be appreciated guys

 

A solenoid wouldn't make your boost lower or slower versus a manual controller.

Something mechanical is wrong and causing your issue

Posting a log and your calibration file will help

 

This is always a good idea to help diagnose problems.

One way you can check is to set the boost control to FIXED duty and set it to like 30% duty.

Check the box for variable frequency and set it to 31hz.

Then set the activation pressure to like 100mbar (change units to mbar).

Then start the car and walk out to the engine bay and see if you can feel the solenoid clicking. You should also see the PWM data log value at 30% with the car running and idling, to ensure that the ECU is actually is outputting a pwm signal.

If the solenoid is not clicking, then I would suggest looking into the ECU as the source of the problem (if you doubled checked your wiring).

 

RE**xenocron
I think i worded it weird let me try and clear it up. nothing on my setup was changed AT ALL except switching from a MBC to MAC valve. It runs off wastegate but no matter what values i input it wont raise boost levels... and yes i have logs where it has drasticlly increase spool time. i was spooling at 2.8rpms & 12psi at 4,000rpms ... now it spools around 3.5rpms and 7psi at 5,000rpms


RE** 93turbo16
i have verified/reverified the pinout is correct, the board components are correctly placed and facing the right direction. also i have checked for power and wiring. my other more experienced tuner friend said it could possibly be that i didnt check (the INVERT INPUT)?? ALSO i have tried to to set the activation pressure to 0 kPa with 25%duty cycle i do NOT think/rememeber if it clicked when i did that... HOWEVER A FRIEND who was trying to help me out with this problem said it did click and felt it "moving, opening/closing" .... when i ground the A11 (ecu wire a spliced piece to the body i can hear the solenoid click)

** NOT SURE HOW TO POST CALBRATION VIA HT??? pic of parameters posted Smanager 2.0**


pic of boost components,, where i pinned it to,, and how i plumbed the solenoid according to other sources this is how you do it for INTERNAL WASTEGATES.

 

you have your lines set up incorrectly. pressure source goes in #1 port, port #2 goes to the top of the wastegate. muffler goes in port 3.

 

Remember this is a INTERNAL GATED SETUP.. i got this off the first link i googled right now but i looked up others aswell they all have it setup this way as well...


(http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/turbo...ll-review.html)

 

That is only for an externally gated setup.. which his is not. He has it routed properly.

OP: Do what I said in my first post to see if the solenoid clicks. I literally walked you through the diagnostics that you should do to verify that the solenoid is working.

The ECU components can sometimes be finicky, I have seen more than 1 ECU with all of the proper components installed fail to work. So don't rule that out!

 

so can someone please spoon feed me and tell me how to post the datalogs/calibrations on here?

 

OKAY- so i did a few more tries and have a few logs of a few short pulls. I have tried INVERT INPUT (as suggested by another tuner) and i have done these SPECIFIC settings... ^^^ ABOVE AS SUGGESTED
seems like O% PWM @ idle on graph except for when it hits boost it outputs the 30% would this be considered normal?
According to all my logs the PWM only activates when car hits boost EX: in vacuum it shows 0% PWM and while in boost it goes to the fixed duty cycle % and boost levels still goes off the gate (7psi). and NO MATTER the values, the amount of boost stays the same?

 

*update* the circuitry is bad so i am going to get new boost components...

1. D14: 512-1n4002 (1N4002DICT-ND)
2. R70: 220 ohm (220ebk-nd)
3. R71: 330 ohm (330ebk-nd)
4. Q20: 526-nte2368 (2SB1030ARACT-ND)
5. Q29: 511-mje3055t (497-2573-5-ND) << most likely the problem..

- it seems like the ecu/components are the problem. so the COMPANY offered to give me a new boost component kit to try to resolve my issue.

-my friend has also bought another s300 installed in a p72 and i will switch his out for mine to see if the actually s300 unit could be bad? and while doing this i am going to use his ecu itself to see if my whole ecu is bad or not compatible with the PWM solenoid controlling.

- the COMPANY that i bought the mac valve from has told me to try a 5watt taillight bulb to use to check if the if the components are working as well. and this test also checks if the components are good/bad also.

" It is an ECU/driver circuit problem if the ECU can not make it click, but it clicks when you connect power to it manually. The most complicated part of your switch over is the addition of the driver circuit, I would look at that first. I doubt you have an oscilliscope.
If you replace the solenoid with a 5watt bulb, the ecu should Dim/brighten that depending on the duty cycle. IF it does then send the solenoid back, if it doesn't you have a driver circuit problem.

 

*SO I PRETTY MUCH RULING THE ECU IS NOT GROUNDING THE SIGNAL/SOLENOID FOR SOME REASON** DOES NOT CLICK WHILE KEY TURN POSITION/.IGNITION ON ONLY**

*When replacing solenoid with 5watt light bulb and switching the duty cycles/parameters around it does NOT power on the light bulb. (i tested the 12v source by grounding it to chasis and the bulb lite up but seems like a11 or ecu not working...)

installed new (replacement components and still nothing changed). the power source (12v CONSTANT) for sure works. Could removing the resistors for the ELD mess with this circuit r136/r138/ and i dont have J12 installed? Could it possibly be my A11 wire/pin (I TUGGED ON THE WIRE SOLDER JOINT AND IT DIDNT FALL OFF SO I ASSUME THATS GOOD? have not checked if that is good with a testlight although have looked at it and looks fine but not 100% sure . i guess i have to test light it then see if it fixes the problem. but in the mean time any other ideas would be helpful this is not my DD or car of importance so its not a big deal

 

bump for any insight/thoughts.. would be very helpful/ appreciated!

 

Here is what i tried with test light today..



So Firstly i hooked up a test light from my power source (12v constant) which is connected to*A-aux connector the very left of 5* and to the chasis it had a solid lite up light... Second thing i did the clip was on the power source and I probed the signal/ground wire a11 with the car idling (it was blinking/pulsing) Thirdly i probed the chasis to see what that would do the light turned solid... NEXT i then wired up the solenoid to a11 and the 12v to see if it would work (it didnt click) AFTER - switched the wires and it did nothing also. THEN i took the signal/ground wire off of the ecu and then put it to the chasis then the solenoid clicked.

 

so... theres current passing through all my wiring but there not enough to power the solenoid (enough to light up a LED test-light)? not sure how that works tried looking up ECU grounding specifically for a 1980 board cant seem to find a diagram. i've seen the wires to them a23/24 ?? (i've read) if anything i am going to send out my ecu to someone to take a look at. if anything i give up

 

multimeter test results bleh month and still cant get it to work... FML haha . car grounds are good aswell as ecu ground wires are good but i noticed with my test light while i probe the ecu grounds its brighter than when i touch a11 so i did a multimeter test and tested the transistors to see what i end up with what these mean im not sure? ...


Q29 Large -- Volts Pin1--Volts--Pin2 --Volts Pin3

PWM=0 -- 0.01 -- 13.99 -- 0.01

PWM=100 -- 0.52 -- 13.88 -- 0.01
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

Q20 small--Volts Pin1--Volts Pin2-- Volts Pin3

PWM=0 -- 4.93 -- 0.06 -- 4.86

PWM=100 -- 4.93 -- 4.88 -- 0.01

 

Have you considered trying your ECU on someone elses vehicle that has an s300 and is using boost control and just uploading thier calibration?

 

Don't know any friends with s300s or s300 w/ boost gear. i was waiting for my "new" s300 w/ecu to come in the mail but the guy barely shipped it out- i was going to test out if ecu wasn't working or the s300 itself that way but i have to wait about a week to do those test.unless i find someone with working boost by gear somehow sooner

 

Are you located in san diego?

Your fixed duty cyles at 60 is too much, start at 5 and go up in those increments(thats if it works) Make sure you enable boost cut.

I'm located in San Diego and i can help hit me up.

 

I have the exact same problem owneyboy, did you ever get it fixed or you just bought a new s300 with known working components?

 

Im having the same issue. I have a normally closed solenoid so the car just runs off the spring pressure. Ive tried all the ways to get the solenoid to activate with the car running and not running and havent had it happen yet. Im getting a switched 12v to the solenoid and getting a solid wire from the solenoid to the A11 ecu pin. tried all kinds of settings in S.mangaer. Still no activation from the solenoid.

**EDIT**

So i was able to verify that my wiring and the ecu worked. With certain setting in the boost control screen, clicking between normally open and normally closed i could hear the solenoid clicking. So should it be just clicking or actually cycling (buzzing)?

 

Having the same issue with my p28 s300 setup. Ordered another p28 haven't received it yet though. In for info

 

What were your exact settings in smanager a1320? Please reply here if you can or take a screenshot showing the settings you used to get it working. Thank you!

 

This is what i used, like i said, i can click between the "maximum boost at 0% duty / normally open" and the "maximum boost at 100% / normally closed" and as I click back and forth, the solenoid will make one single click.

 

Did this problem ever get sorted? I'm thinking I might be running into same issue. Thanks

 

Hey Bigmike, the car must be idling to test the solenoid with the s300. Then set the activation parameters to make it cycle. There appears to be a minimum rpm that is unlisted with the s300. That why I think the car must be on, this is just my opinion of course. With the Neptune Demon, you can have the solenoid clicking with key on engine off much easier. My car is pretty noisy at idle so I got a bulb and used to intensity of the light to test.