97 accord coupe... just finished swapping in a f22b bottom end and h22a4 head... new dizzy new wires, all grounds checked over, no pinched wires, nothing been modified since the car was running (no splicing into harness, fuses, etc...) please any ideas are very much appreciated... getting spark ALL the way up til dizzy (external coil)... have work, but will put out a lil more detail to the steps I've taken for swap after work... but I'm about to be late... thanks in advance

Shawn

 

Make sure you hook up and tighten down this engine ground located on the driverside Intake Mani, or you won't have spark:





I forgot to tighten down this ground. It was snug, and my engine would not spark whatsoever after doing a headgasket on my F22B1 I had back in the day.

 

If you are getting power up to the distributor I would suggest that you Test/replace the ICM/ignitor.

Do you have a Helms or Haynes manual? One for an Accord or Prelude will work, they both have the test procedures for testing the ignitor.

 

^x2. The ICMs are known to go out.

 

the dizzy is BRAND new from honda... not a remanufactured... brand spankin new, ripped outta the bubble wrap myself... so i'm doubting the ICM... BUT i will try it... as for the ground... i have that one connected as well as the cam side mount, front side near trans, and one other i think... i'm at a complete lose...

the water pump went out originally on stock f22, and everything electronically wise has been untouched since... fuses all good, grounds (to my knowledge)... i even re-pulled harness to make sure i didn't crimp any wires together

 

Only other thing I can think of is to test the ignition coils primary and secondary winding resistance as well as the already mentioned distributor/ICM.

What TDC & CKP sensors are you using, I'm going to assume that you are using the stock ones on the oil pump housing/block.

 

your assumption is correct sir

 

tried switching icm with one i KNOW works... nothing, back in other car fires right up... the coil is working as it should.... what am i missing? new plugs wires cap everything... should i add another ground that isn't already present? I'm lost and tired of playing chauffeur

 

so i'm completely out of ideas on what to do... tested the icm, external coil, ignition switch, and relays as per helms manual... the external coil, dizzy, button, cap, plugs, and wires are all brand new and i've went and exchanged 3 seperate coils... getting a steady 12v in, turn key... 1 SINGLE arc then nothing... the ecu's main ground is connected properly on manifold as pictured above (always was, but checked over for shizzz and gigglez)... as well as ground from battery, cam gear side mount ground and figured SCREW IT (i do a lot with b series), so tried to even add ground at thermostat housing after all else failed... PLEASE HELP... PLEEEEEASE!!! and thanks




p.s. not that this effects spark but yes the car is in time and i'm getting fuel... whirls over and sounds like a damn beast... just not getting spark The harness has been unmodified because everything was direct bolt up (so yes i switched the f22 EGR valve to the h22 manifold so i WOULDN'T have to clip ANY plugs)...

THANKS AGAIN ANY IDEAS APPRECIATED!!!!

 

please help ttt

 

ttt

 

almost unreal that this is not the ICM.

Do u see arcing at the ignition wire going into the distributor?
Can you pull a plug and make sure the wire seats it perfectly....as well as confirm arcing at the plug?

possible electrical wire or wire inside connector is not making contact....check the pig connectors.

 

no spark coming from plugs... i'm guessing since nothing is getting past the external coil is why... can't get spark from coil even with the constant 12v going in... throws 1 single arc from the coil if you try direct contact to a manifold bolt or something and then nothing... definately has me stumped... was soo set on ICM/ignitor, or again even possible ground issue... nothing


AND IT IS NOT COIL, I'VE REPLACED WITH A 4TH NOW...

 

Can u post the electrical wiring diagram for your year car? I run a 92...things may be a little different the diagram will show what other items in the circuits could be causing an interruption.

Since it seems you've covered everything it would normally be....it could end up going back to the PCM or wiring that goes to the coil as the culprits.

When you say you tested and swapped the ICM's you did fully place the other ICM with screws and all in your new distributr right? cuz I think that icm has a grounding plate that needs to touch the internal housing of the dist.

Do you have your old distributor? why did u replace it?

Do you own a multimeter? There is an ignition fuse under the hood..make sure current is present there as well as obv. fuse not being blown. You can use the multimeter placing one end into a suspect wire and the other at the opposite end to test the wires for continuity...you can use that method to rule out at least the patches of wires that you do have access to. Sometimes in the wiriing looms you can match the colors and trace the wire all the way back to the firewall from say the end prong of a pigtail connection. You can then rule out the wire from the firewall on being the problem. this is ideal. and would settle the case of possible bad wiring.

Retrace your steps. Your missing something....prob from frustration you may have mis tested something. Rightfully so....at least your not doing this on the highway at 4am in the morning.

I think there is a chance it could be your main relay under your steering wheel as well. Since that plays a role with the ignition switch...but usually that gives a no starter turning condition. But if u can swap with a friends...you could rule it out....since it is ignition related.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the coil gets fired from wires that first go into the distributor I beleive...the first time I troubleshooted this it stumped me becuz american cars do things more in succession steps....and don't double back. On this motor the icm inside the distributor is before the coil in its circuit...so wires leave the distributor to feed the coil then the coil turns around and feeds the cap. Check the wires under the distributor that is a very cramped area on a 92...and frustrating to disconnect/recoonect....on the pig tail connecters a wire may have came loose and is not making full contact.

The plastic in the pig connectors likes to break without easy notice.

 

L2ILL thank you for your time!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!
ok a lot to respond too, but when testing icm, yes it was fully and completely screwed in, everything completely bolted back together as honda produced from factory... i thought about whole grounding out issue, and helms referred to it as well... while i was inside dizzy and swapping out ICM's, i checked and rechecked wiring before and after installation of each icm...
yes i do have a multimeter which is what i've used to preform most of these tests, and also brings me to conclusion that the ignition switch and main relay both are in working order, because we've traced those all the way back thru firewall as you referenced... the ignition fuse was checked throughout that process as well and voltage is as should be (i have all these numbers wrote down, unfortunately the car is about 25 minutes away and have a busy afternoon so won't be able to grab the info at this time, but i can post and reference it all tomorrow evening)...
as for old distributor, the car was orginially a stock f22, this is a f22 build with h22 head, therefore dizzy wouldn't work as they don't line up... WITH THAT SAID, before i BOUGHT BRAND NEW DIZZY FROM HONDA 2 WEEKS AGO, i had went throughout many write-ups and came across one from Mr. Ghost up there, as to how to change over and convert the f22 dizzy into h22 casing (atleast i think it was his, i have soo many bookmarked pages now pertaining to this build), and with that i had no luck and was running into same problems i am here, so i went the expensive route now and seems like for nothing...
sorry this is all kinda jumbled together... on a phone... i do not have another main relay, to test out, which may be my next move, but fuel pump everything functions as should, and car turns over without hesitation, just no spark... everything else in car is functioning as it should which is making me think it HAS to be within a patch of 10 wires... the 4 and 2 wire plug on dizzy, as well as the 4 wires running from CKP sensor on crank housing... but at same time, ALL have been meticulously gone over more then a dozen times, and then rechecked just to make sure... there are 3 wires that go to the external coil, the 12v constant is present, the trigger tested fine as well, so i'm at a loss, but i'll end up going over EVERYTHING again tomorrow, sooo done with this car, THE FIRST, AND LAST TO BEAT ME!!! but if i can't figure things out this weekend i'm pulling the swap and parting things out to buy her another car because lord knows WOMEN HAVE NO PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you for help honda-tech

 

The distributor change is likely the problem...there may be a wire that does not interact the same as the old.

Or a change at honda altho subtle that does not work the way you guys are expecting it to.

I would at least reference the old and see if you can confirm the colors on the wire are the same. And if they are.....do they correspond exactly in the same places within their pig connectors....as well as do they also match each others way of interacting with the ICM.

Engineers make these changes and they look the same but the functioning is different.

In a last ditch effort I would convert it back to normal.

 

nah, that was a concern of mine originally, the distributors wiring is the same unfortunately, same corresponding colors and placement in connectors as well as placement internally on ICM

 

I'm definitely not into the racing side of Honda but I do know how to fix'em. Before the ECM will ground the igniter (icm) it has to see a good AC signal (at least 2 volts) from the TDC, Cylinder Position, and Crank Sensor. Are there any differences in the sensors in the distributor? Is a sensor missing the the ECM is looking for? Just a thought.

 

nope nothing was missing, internals of dizzy are identical... with the engine being obd2 the ckp sensor and such located at the timing/crank gear and have been tested as well, which CAN be a false positive because they can get a reading 2 ecu, but not dizzy, BUT at same time, with previous swap that came out, the sensor functioned correctly and doesn't show any signs of wear or malfunctioning nor a single CEL...

 

At this point I would think the computer is fugged....altho...all the different parts mixed maybe something is not combined right or ommited but assuming thats not the case.....the fuggin computer is fugged...i would be pissed if i were u its tru.
If all the rest of the car is fine....then i would not give up until I got her going again.
If it needs other work on top of work...scrap that pos.
Its been claimed by the gremlins.

 

i read through the whole thread and didn't see anything about you plugging in the old f22 distributor to see if that worked.

 

you ever get it figured out??