I have a jackson on my car they get heat soaked real fast I've read where allot of people intercool them and I've read obviously where people are using intercoolers on turbo cars.

What is the best way to cool the jackson down and make more power.

Has anyone tried a peltier cooler on there cars. They run off 12 volts and will make a beer freeze solid in less then 2 minutes. There a small chip I would have thought by now someone would have installed one on there intercooler or used one to cool the water in there water to air intercooler or even mounted one to a jackson because they get ice cold.

My idea was to go back to water injection again and this time use a peltier cooler to cool the water almost ice cold before it injects into the car. Does anyone have any thoughts on these devices or has anyone used them. I know people use them for fuel lines to cool the fuel but they have multiple uses

Any input would be appreciated.

 

Peltiers are known for being very energy inefficient. They require a bunch of amps (from your alternator not amps for your stereo). So you would put alot more load on your alternator.

Also the thing to understand is that its taking heat from one side and putting it on the other. So in order to make the liquid cold on one side you are transferring that heat to the other side of the peltier which then must be dissapated, either through a traditional heatsink or through a more complex water cooling system.

It is a fascinating technology, but there is a good reason you don't see them use in alot of applications. Kinda the same reason you don't see people using an air conditioner to cool the intake temps.

EDIT: Also in the case of water injection I don't believe the temp of the water is whats critical. Its more the molecular properties of water that allow it to absorb the heat around it. Now people do make ice boxes for air to water intercoolers, but its not such an easy task to just make ice at will. A peltier is not going to do that, especially with the kind of volume your talking about. Engines move a TON of air volume.

 

Thanks for your input I do have 3 chips here and I did run into the amperage problem you are talking about but when I wired them in series and instealled a potentiometer I was able to get the current draw down to 5 amps. What I was thinking about doing was having a friend weld up an aluminum water resevior and mount the three chips to the outside of the resevoir because aluminum transfers hot and cold quickly. I was going to put 3 copper computer heatsinks on the opposite side of the chip and then use a small water pump and the cooling lines from an old school water cooled 2 stroke dirtbike and not only cool the water I inject into the vehicle but circulate water around the blower through the cooling lines. I was going to get a small copper refrigerator coil and cut it down so it would sit on top of the blower. I was going to pour a mold of Devcon liquid aluminum on tops of the blower to give me a flat surface and then put artic silver inbetween the devcon surface and the heatsink since it needs a carrier. I realize this hasn't been done before but I thought it might help. The only uses I have seen with the peltier cooler are cooling fuel lines and that seems to work really well and heating nitrious bottles and the guy at the track swears by the little chips but he made his own aluminum bands to go around the bottles and welded on a flat chunk of aluminum on each band to act as a flat surface for the chips.

If you think I'm wasting my time I won't do it but I have gotten the amp draw down to five amps by wiring in series I have no aplifier or subwoofers and I know they pull more then five amps.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoe...ng#Performance

You'd have better results just plumbing up an AC unit for cooling...

 

no I wouldn't AC runs off the motor causing allot of drag if I can use a chip with no moving parts and regulate the power I'm not putting a noticeable stress on the engine certainly no more then most modern stereo systems. I hear what your saying I understand what your saying but I do think there are automotive applications for the technology besides cooling fuel which NHRA racers already use these chips on there fuel lines.

 

do it and let us know how it works.

 

It's worth a shot may take awhile. Guess the threads dead If it does have positive results I can verify on a dyno I'll write more about it later. thx for the initial input everyone.

 

never would work in the size you need, not only would you run into power inefficiency problems, assuming you could get a 140amp alternator to support the power requirement, you still have to dissipate the heat equally as fast on the opposite end of the TEC cooler which is almost impossible to do with air.

 

So does the alternator, which has the amount of drag determined entirely by the electrical load currently being used by the car.

Moving parts are rather irrelevant here. Total efficiency is what needs to be evaluated.

You're converting mechanical work (spinning pulley) to electricity (in the alternator), at less than 100% efficiency (it has to be, nothing is 100% efficient), to then use an electric heat pump, running 5-10% efficiency, for cooling, and thinking it will be better than an AC system, which can achieve 60% efficiency?

I do too, and looked into doing this for a friend's car years ago (since both he and I are computer / electronics geeks), which is why I'm telling you, the math says just using an AC will result in more cooling for less power consumption. Since all power in the car originates from the engine, whether we're discussing mechanical work or electricity, overall efficiency is all that needs to be looked it.

You will need to provide more HP to the alternator to use thermoelectric coolers than to spin an AC compressor, simply due to total efficiency.

Now, if you have a hybrid that can generate electricity through regenerative braking (or other alternative means), things begin to change. In theory, you could generate all the electricity you need, without an alternator, from the engine's waste heat (power a peltier and they pump heat, apply a heat differential to a peltier and they generate electricity), which would also then make inefficient uses of electricity suddenly make sense.

Unfortunately, the ways to make using a peltier for cooling make more sense than more traditional means all rely on much greater cost and/or complexity.

 

they do make electrically powered ac compressors, just fyi...

I've seen people plumb the cars ac system into an air/water core as opposed to a heater core... same effect and it drops IAT's retardedly low... it makes enough power to justify the load on the motor and the power drop from drag (which is more than made up by dropping IAT's)

 

running the ac compressor on the belt drive would require more power then you would ever gain from the cooling effect, its in no way the same parasitic drag loss and spinning a free moving alternator.

 

also you could get a much higher amperage alternator for the project, but again, the hot side of the TEC needs to be cooled just as effectively...

http://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/hiou120amp198.html

TEC's were not effective at all in air cooling applications on CPU's, thats why they never got popular, you needed at the very least a water cooling system to evaporate the heat from the hot side. Even if you routed the hot side through the cooling system on the car, the cooling system runs hotter then the IAT's so in effect it would be defeating the purpose, keeping the hot side perpetually hot, and dumping insane amounts of heat into the cooling system as well. It is a double edged sword that is not very efficient at all any way you look at it.

 

an average import ac compressor sucks about 12hp at the wheels.

taking a rough average of 120* iat's and dropping them into the 60-70 range seems worth it to me...

 

somehow i doubt its 12hp on a honda, until you actually verify the loss on a dyno

 

thats about average, i'll do a back to back dyno on my civic when I get my new motor in. on a subaru I know its 12...

a 7.2 degree drop in air temp = a 1% increase in power

given a 400hp car dropping IAT's from 120ish to 60-70 makes a 33hp gain

 

The only option I did think might be applicable was to get a water injection system AEM and basically put the chip outside the water resevoir set the chip to draw 12 volt 5 amps with a potentiometer and build an aluminum heat sink with a rod that enters the tank that way the one gallon of water is constantly being cooled and when I had water injection before 1 gallon would last about 2 weeks for me. So I figured since it was a low volume of water it would be allot easier to cool off and I could let the system inject cold water into the blower port to lower the intake air temps. Do you feel this may be viable since I can control the power and it's a low volume of water that should take much to cool.??? your insanley smart add me to your friends list on here if you want.
I'd love to bounce ideas off you every now and then.

 

you couldn't get a peltier cooler big enough to matter on an automotive application. something that large (think dinner plate) would draw so much current it'd be stupid