Figured some of you would appreciate the metallurgical erotica going on in my life.

Things started out as a U-weld AutoPower roll cage. From the start my fabricator at Blackbird Fabworx noted the mounting plates were inadequate for the paper thin floors of my Honda. Those were upgraded, and the cage was installed...



Sigh...Kinda felt like I settled with the last girl at the bar because I didn't want to go home alone. There's just got to be something better so we talked it out.

Definitely wanted to add more stiffness to the car and having some more survivability would help too. Planned a bit more and left the rest to him.

A week passes and I stop in to check on his progress.

As I approach, the hatch is open and I peek inside:

Now we're getting somewhere!

From the passenger side



Closeups:


More fabrication


Closeup of some fabrication including the larger mounting plate

A quick Google search made me really glad he changed from the default mounting plate.

So far the experience has been pretty good. Kept up to date with regular progress emails and always giving feedback on what to do next or consider changing. His racing experience was helpful in identifying other changes I should do to the car and what investments will give the best return. Definitely feel a lot safer from where we started with the AutoPower cage. Also, with all the fabrication and tie ins the car will be a lot stiffer than what I first envisioned.

Most everything is in at this point except the door bars and some other minor fabrication work. Once I get those pics or anything else I'll update the thread.

 

why did your fabricator opt for mig welding the cage? I know that a proper mig weld is strong, I just think it makes it look cheap.

 

Don't know actually.

 

it won't matter once it is painted. the floor plate welds look great. mine never turn out half that nice.

 

The outside of the car is black and the wheels are a bronze color.
Tossing around the idea of gold or bronze for the cage.

 

is the car purpose built for a specific type of racing?

 

He obviously knows how to weld and how to bend tubes so that is good work. I think what I don't like is that the A pillar bar should have gone through the dash. I don't understand the plates on the lower cross bar in the main hoop and why that bar is bent. Are you really tall?

You should run the lower horizontal bar in the main hoop first right above the tunnel then weld in the diagnol on top of the horizontal now you got your lower bar bending around the diagnol, that doesn't do anything.

 

Those Mig welds look effin fantastic. According to the 2011 SCCA and NASA GCR rule book that is a perfect sanction legal cage, design wise. the only thing I see where you might get dinged on come inspection time is your corss bar in the rer. AS defined by NASA 2011 GCR that brace serves no other purpose other than chassis stiffining. The normal backlash of that is the inspector will most likely require you to add 30 lbs of weight, or make you cut it out. It depends entirely on the inspector and the competition class you run in that may or may not have special allowances for that suport.

both rule books can be found here

Nasa - http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf (specifically section 15.6.2 applies to what i said above.)

SCCA - http://cms.scca.com/documents/2011%2...%20version.pdf (starts at section 9.4)

I love the cage!

 

The owner of the car pointed me to the thread

The car is being prepared for NASA Honda Challenge.
We are prepared to take 30 lbs of ballast for additional chassis stiffening.

The reason to use MIG over TIG is that it's quicker and easier to use and lends itself well to the application, thus lowering the cost of fabrication.
If you can lay down a proper weld bead with the MIG there's no reason not to do it, this isn't a show car build, it's a racecar.

Besides, as one of the posters had mentioned, once it is all painted the cage will look great.

And now to the design questions.
Yes, I would have liked myself to run the door frame bars (front legs) tight against the A-pillar and through the dash.
However, working with the Autopower kit I received and within the customer's budget we retained the AP tubes and did what we could with them.
I normally gusset the front legs to the windshield frame along the way, however since they are so far I chose not to do it to avoid obstructing the line of sight of the driver.
Instead, they are gusseted to the top of the windshield frame, you'll see it once the owner gets around to take some more progress pics.

As for the lower cross bar, it does more than you think designed that way.
The factory equipped the car with a cross beam made out of steel plate (plates actually, it's a multi piece beam bolted together in the car), this beam is there to prevent the car from becoming 3 ft wide in case it gets hit from the side.
Honda made the beam out of steel plate because they wanted to retain as much space as possible for the back seat so going with the plate made sense for the application because it could be formed to fit tightly against the chassis.
The only problem is that the plate beam weighs a ton and now that the back seat is gone there's no need to save that space anymore... So instead, I fabricated a tube that replaces the crash beam and ties to the main hoop, the diagonal, the lower door bars on both sides, the frame rails (with the rear gussets) and the tunnel (with the front gusset).
The tube is welded to the chassis along the way in 9 places, notched and welded to the diagonal and of course the main hoop.
See, there's more to it

Please feel free to ask any questions, I'll be checking the thread and do my best to answer.

Moti

 

Adding 30 lbs of weight isnt necessarily a bad thing. Since there is no specific place that says it has to be mounted you can use it to help corner balance the car. + + +

I didnt realize that you had removed the original cross brace. The new cross brace is much lighter and stronger. On the subject i have a question to which i havent found an answer to. I read that the cross brace is considered to be part of the cage as long as the rear support down tubes meet each other by either welding the bars together by either welding them both to the same plate in a figure 8 pattern or the cross brace welded between the 2 tubes as mounted on the plates. IF in case this is the fact this would eliminate the compliance violation and no need for the 30 lb weight addition.

Again that is a question of mine as i dont know that for sure.

I will say this, Those welds are some of the best ive seen in a long time. And I am extremely impressed on the plate welds to the floor. Can you elaborate on how you accomplished those welds? From the looks of it, you did a multi pass with the mig. first at low amps and the second at a higher amp?

 

There's no way to avoid the 30 lbs. of ballast with this car, take a look at rules 4.9e and 4.9f of the NASA HC rules, you'll see what I mean.

Thanks for the compliment about the welding.
The welds are a single pass, running hot and high wire speed.
The trick is mainly in directing the heat to the target at the correct ratio between the chassis and the mounting plates.

Moti

 

Targeting Honda Challenge H4 class but also for general purpose track days.

 

I was just wondering why its is bent and gusseted? I understand about running the crossbar but most people usually do it like this then you can weld the bar straight to the tunnel. You save material and it is lighter as well. Good job anyway

Not my pic https://honda-tech.com/forums/road-racing-autocross-time-attack-19/track-toy-finially-coming-together-2890114/

 

Got another update.
Been distracted and haven't had a chance to put up some new pictures.

The cage was completed last week, the door bars are done, and the new seats are almost installed.
Passenger side door bar (old seats):

First part of the driver side door bar (old seats)

Completed driver side door bar (tidied up the door a bit as well):


I'll be picking up the car as soon as the cage is painted and some of the other details are wrapped up. Can't wait!

 

Possibly the final update in the Welding/Fabrication section!

The cage is painted, seat mounts are installed, seats are fitted, tint's off the windows, and window net is installed.

Rear view of the cage through the hatch.


Looking down a bit.


Gussets at the front of the cage and a bit of the window net hardware.


Seat mounts and everything painted.


Driver side door bar. Have 3M protective film on most of driver/passenger door bar and cage surfaces. Looks absolutely stunning.


Looking through the driver side window towards the back of the car.


Window net, Get!


I can only imagine how much stiffer the car is. Probably feels completely different.

Barring any disasters I'll be out at the Streets of Willow this weekend
(February 12th). I'll be in White Group with a Black Civic Hatch marked #064. Hope to see some of you there!