I have a 95 civic hatch, and I am going to buy or want to buy strut tower tie bars. There are some on ebay for $40 for both front and rear. Are they any good? Will they work just fine or are there drawbacks or am I worrying too much about an inanimate steel (carbon<<get it?) rod? thanks

 

i wanna know the same thing!

 

The $40 E-Bay ones will do just as much for street driving as any other bar on the market will. They all do little to nothing.

 

I bought a $14 one off ebay. And I will tell you this, it is a LOT better than not having anything.

oversteer was reduced, turn in is much crisper, and car hold on better when going over bumps. Worth the money for sure.

(NOTE: this was on my FD RX-7)

 

A lot of people knock strut bars but I used to have problems with the inside rear wheel lifting way off the ground in slow sharp turns (while autocrossing). I added a rear strut bar and now I don't have that problem any more.

I would go with any inanimate carbon rod. Perhaps one that has been in a parade?


[Modified by Geratol, 10:53 AM 9/20/2002]

 

I don't think that a carbon rod that saved a space shuttle would stoop to that level.

 

I disagree. I noticed a huge difference in the stiffness of the chassis when I would jack it up from one of the jack points behind the front wheels. The chassis had much less slop and give after I installed the bars.

The EBAY bars are not nearly as stiff as, for example, my Neuspeed bars. I know, I've had both.

The Ebay bars are, however, better than nothing.

 

please explain how a front strut tower bar 'reduces' oversteer? Shouldn't reduce understeer? I dunno....

 

Yeah when I installed my Neuspeed bars I noticed a big difference it steering response and feel.

 

they all serve a purpose and help. Ebay struts just are unmarked and are slightly weaker then brand ones. Like under cold conditions, they will flex alittle more. But over all, for 15 bucks, you cant beat that price. go for it. I believe one guy has all four for 100 bucks

 

Where are you coming up with this theory? Any evidence to back it up?

Strut tower bars *do* help. Maybe not as much as a cage, but nevertheless anything to strengthen the unibody structure will aid in suspension effectiveness.

 

Where are the suspension loads transmitted when cornering? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't tell me it is the top of the shock tower (where the braces mount). That would be true in a McPherson strut-style suspension system but NOT in an SLA setup like what is on the more modern cars we drive. It may prevent some body flex but if you look at the geometry of the front suspension a STB is doing very little to brace the points where the force is actually applied (which happens to be where the UCAs mount to the frame). The struts in an SLA suspension are not locating members - they are dampers.

This has been debated to death here already. Most of the RACERS here don't see a whole lot of value in them.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=206943

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=271349


Drew - Who STILL can't figure out the physics involved that allow an STB to cut down on body roll (as mentionned in a previous post)

 

I think ppl confuse STBs for swaybars...But the car does feel more poised over bumps. That's the only advantage I see. In *theory* it helps, but in *application*, I can't feel much of a difference.

Measured by my butt-o-meter....

David

 

I never noticed any significant difference with a strut tie bar, but that's just me.

 

Cut down in body roll--no, that's stupid.

However, a front STB, in some *magical* way, does indeed improve steering feel and turn-in. Guys with roillcages won't notice squat. However, for autox or something like that, they do add a small benefit.

You think Honda put one on the ITR just for looks? Dunno, but I doubt it. A lot of other car manu. have done this as well with their hi-po models. Marketing ploy?

 

STBs allow the springs/shocks/suspension geometry to be doing more of what it is designed to do, rather then allowing some of the energy to bleed off into the chassis during chassis flex. Thus, a better turn-in. But its not neccessarily a "huge" change, depending on how stiff the chassis already is.

I do believe STBs do alot...even if I don't feel it. Why else would they ban tri-point STBs from the STS class? And stock classes as well...

 

and if you ever get in a wreck all that braceing will help keep things from being squashed in

 

Right... Ever been in a wreck?

Strut tower bars = 2 bent frame rails instead of 1.

Warren

 

ok step back and think about this for a second, open your hood and look at your whole front clip: waiting.....ok, now in retrospect to the total of the front clip where is the most weight? thinking..... right. in the middle where the ENGINE is! ok now with the remainder of the car ie) the sides where the strut towers are and motor mounts are is going to be pulled toward the middle like this.... 0/ \0 , you follow me? now if you place a bar (strut tower bar) between the 2 points where they bend in, than that' have lateral resistance to cambering in thus resulting in stability of the car in varying degrees from a minimal gain to perhaps a sizable amount......so the after picture...... ____
0l l0 conclusion: you can't say they do nothing, because they do something

 

How many of you have noticed that you car accelerates faster right after you have washed it? C'mon, show of hands...

Placebo effect. You think it should be faster and handle better, so your butt-o-meter tells you that it is - particularly on a street car. Do some blind comparisons with a stopwatch at an autocross and a REALLY good driver might find a couple of tenths. Maybe.

But, hey - have a blast! It's your dough.

Kirk

 

A 3 point is different than a 2 point. The 3 point ties together the front chassis and the firewall. The reason they allow 2 points but not the 3 points is because 2 points don't do anything noticable. They are also not allowed in Street Prepared unless the car was equipped from the factory with one.
So you are saying that the engine is pulling your strut towers in at an angle? Hello? Your motor doesn't mount to the strut towers - it mounts to the frame rails. It also mounts to the firewall. Why is there no brace that goes from the firewall to the front core support? Because the motor does not pull down on the firewall just like it doesn't pull down on the strut towers.

 

>>A 3 point is different than a 2 point.<<

Gotta be careful with those though because they tend to be illegal in a lot of classes.

Bottom line is, a STB provides another point of attachment for the chassis, therefore providing at least some sort of benefit. However, the amount of benefit may be a lot, or it may not be worth the extra weight of a 3 lb STB. For instance, 5G Civics benefit from chassis bracing a lot more than 6G's...

 

so would 4th gen benefit more than 5th?

 

I put cheap eBay front and rear bars on my Integra and there was a noticable improvement, but it wasn't making me out corner any 911's either. It's a mild mod and you shouldn't pay more than a mild price.

Also, I think the discussion about the stiffness of the bars is somewhat questionable. My cheap eBay bars are pretty solid and won't flex if I push down on it, but the stock Type-R and GS-R bars will. Does that make mine better than Honda's? Probably not. And I bet there's a reason that the Honda bars flex like that, because they certainly have the capability to put in bars that wouldn't. Of course, I don't think the stress is up/down on the bars when cornering, so that test may be pointless.

 

From what I have heard they do very little if anything at all.
gmoore