My G2 Integra racer needs a new front strut brace. Any suggestions on what to look for and expected price points?

I want a high value/dollar product, not the priciest bar on the market... any suggestions?


Greg

 

Bars really have very little value. They are mainly an easy-to-install part that race cars have hence their popularity. I suppose they do a little for what we do with the cars but don't go out of your way spending an assload of cashola on one. They are typically one of the last items added to a race car.

I got a Comptech front for $75 used. I would be surprised if you couldn't find a Comptech/ITR for under $100 in the Classified forum.

My rear was a donation from a shop which I am sponsored by. It was an inexpensive piece to begin with. If I find it flexing I will weld the damn thing. You can also build a rear for a few bucks worth of Home Depot parts (talk to Bookler).

EDIT: G2 Neuspeed makes one but I don't really like it. I am sure there are others out there . . .


[Modified by Cobra, 5:52 PM 6/12/2002]

 

The one in the car now doesn't come up and over the engine but runs behind the engine and is rubbing on the back of the throttle body showing wear from either the body flex or from the rotational torque of the engine. Not the best design IMO.

Thanks to all


[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 12:13 AM 6/13/2002]

 

I personally run Spoom strut bars and wouldn't be if I hadn't gotten such a deal on them used. $150 for upper front and upper rear bars SHIPPED, so I could not pass them up. If you haven't, keep an eye on the classifieds forum on http://www.g2ic.com and you may be able to find something for cheap that will suit what you are looking for. That's where I picked up mine, but I have ABS so my choices are limited. (And if you have an RS, you don't have to worry about it clearing the ABS) Although, if you are buying these new they will probably cost a pretty penny.

I know Cusco makes a pretty nice lower front bar for around $80 new but I don't know if they make any other ones. Check out http://www.optauto.com , as that's where I found the Cusco bar before. Besides that, I always thought the Neuspeed upper front bar was a nice piece, but it looks like Cobra differs in opinion.

Try a post on http://www.g2ic.com in the "General Discussion" forum and you may be surprised what kind of responses you get (hopefully for the better).


[Modified by mojoGSR92, 6:05 PM 6/12/2002]

 

My feeling is just that you shouldn't spend more than $100 on a bar because they don't give you more than $100 worth of performance.

 

Agreed.

 

I can agree with that statement. I spent $60-80 (cant remember) on my neuspeed bar, i liked it a lot. it made a noticable difference on my handling and car feel with stock suspension. however i dont think i would pay a lot for it, because you can buy cheap ones that work nearly the same. its just a piece of metal connecting two sides of the chassis. (and theres no such thing as "preload" or adjustment on this)

but bulldog, what makes you think your car "needs" a strut bar? i cant say any car really needs one.

 

I got a chance to look at a mugen knock off. To be honest it looked really good. I think it would work better then most of the bars I've seen. They have them on group buy for $65 I beleave.

If I wasn't so cheap I'd pick one up.

It has nice sturdy welds and mounts to the shock tower by 4 bolts instead of 2.


Oh I just wanted to add...
I found this no-name under brace online last year. I wish I could remember where I got it. It was $70 and works awesome. Connects like a Nuespeed up front then has two bars welded on that then connect by the firewall. It really stiffened up the car. I'll try to find it if anyone is interested.


[Modified by turboman, 1:17 AM 6/13/2002]

 

Bulldog: assuming that the RS in your signature stands for an Integra RS, I would choose a knock-off of a Spoon/Mugen etc., which seems to have a more stable design than other one-piece bars. I personally have a Pilot Motorsports front bar, which cost $40 shipped. I'm attempting to find a rear bar for less than $20.

Actually, strut bars may be a bit more useful than you think. This site here, actually contains some very interesting information about stut bars. The physics are a bit too theoretical (no real world measurements), but it is all plausible and pretty well done.

Definitely worth reading.

Edit: read mojo's comment about triangulization.




[Modified by GSpeedR, 5:56 PM 6/19/2002]

 

Be careful with some of those Neuspeed style bars, or moreso with the braces that attach to the firewall. The Neuspeed bars may be considered as triangulating and are definately illegal in some solo II classes, but I have no idea of classing issues in roadracing (i.e. ITA, bulldog's class). Someone may be able to contest this if they want to be really fickle at a solo II event.

The ones that attach to the firewall are definately considered triangulating and therefore are illegal in such a class as STS.

 

Ditto what Cobra said. Hard to screw up, no wires to dink with, won't make you crash if you dork up the installation, easy to see (particularly if you put a sticker on it), looks like real race car stuff, pennies to make, gigantic mark-up, large placebo effect and, if you sell a front then you can stick them for a rear too - in short, the ultimate aftermarket part. The only bigger scam than selling them would be installing them.

We DID run one on the rally car, where shell longevity is an issue and every little bit helps. A race car with really stiff springs (a la SPEED Touring), probably. IT-type car - after lots of other stuff. Street/autocross car? Buy CDs or a 1/2 of a new tire instead.

Kirk

 

The one thing he doesn't mention is the fact that all his theory is centered around a McPherson strut system where all the side load is transfered to the top of the tower through the strut since this is the primary structural support for the suspension. In the DC2 for example the side load is carried through the UCA to the side of the chassis. An effective brace would run from frame rail to frame rail in this instance. SLA suspensions are much more solid because the force is transmitted to the frame as opposed to a sheetmetal shock tower.

 

Here is a picture of the Spoon bar, the build quality is excellent and for the second generation Integra you won't find a legal bar that exceeds it's rigidity.

http://mac33.ritslab.ubc.ca/marc/106-0623_img.jpg


[Modified by DB1-R81, 9:29 PM 6/12/2002]

 

That's true. For those who don't want to read it, the site is specific to E30 M3s (generalized for "MacPherson struted" cars). Thanks for the clarification.

Anyway, I'm just throwing out some different opinions.

BTW does anyone (Cobra?) know of a decent site to explain/discuss the mechanics of an independent suspension?

 

I did a test on my old GSR of no front bar vs. Neuspeed 4 point front bar.

1st run, I did a back to back with the bar and without. I *could* notice a difference on quickness of turnin.

2nd run, my friend, who had no idea why he was taking a 90degree turn at 35mph in a parking lot did it with and then without the bar. After I took the bar off and he made the turn he wondered if I had let air out of the tires.

Not 100% scientific, but for a unibody car, you can't go wrong with more bracing. I noticed a difference and so did my friend. Whether or not this translates to a quicker time is tough to tell, but it does help the feel of the car IMO.

And if it wasn't necessary, I doubt a bar (added weight) would have found it's way on the Type R and GSR over the LS/RS model. Heck, my old 91 Chevy Z24 had a oem factory front strut bar and the other cavaliers didn't.

 

Due to the open engine bay and the weight of the engine/transmission up there, I'm inclined to believe that a front tower bar can make a difference (versus no bar)... I'm harder to convince on the back bar.

hehe.. it would be fun to run a quick Finite Element model of a simplified structure just to see rough numbers, but I can almost guarantee that I'll never actually have the combination of boredom, energy, and free time to do this, though..

 

ive run a similar program in solidworks on a "generic" car model when designing my own front and rear strut braces. yes, the bars do make a difference in torsional rigidity, although im sure nobody believes me

nick, who will have a triangular upper front brace built before hyperfest.

 

I've had my mind changed by actual data before and would love to find out more about what you did...

Kirk

 

I run the neuspeed front upper strut bar. Its one peice design was the selling point (to me at least). Anyway, i paid $100 for it.

here's a pic...

 

Jon: does your bar attach to the firewall? It doesn't appear to. So, that wouldn't be considered triangularization, right?

I need a damn rule book.

 

Can you explain this please? I always thought that say with a hatchback, like the GS-R for ex., you would benefit since the frame's so wide open in the rear. Isn't the frame not as strong in the rear for a FWD car? Thanks
[Edit: I hate grammar]


[Modified by Steppin Razor, 3:03 PM 6/13/2002]

 

Chris: It does not connect to the firewall, although i wish i had one that did. I heard someone on the G2 board that "some" consider it as triangularization. I've been to local autox and the bar hasn't been a problem during tech. I don't know about the big autox events though.

 

What I meant by triangulating is the fact that most rulebooks only allow a chassis brace to extend transversely across two suspension mounting points and cannot extend longitudinally. In a loose interpretation of the rules, someone may contest the Neuspeed bar because it mounts in 4 seperate places. For someone to complain about that though, you would have to be very competitive and a whiner at the same time. Since it mounts in 4 places it kind of has longitudinal bracing and that is why it may be contested.

Typical triangulating bars mount to the front bulkhead, er...um firewall.

EDIT: By the way, it's spelled triangulating. This was also targeted at people who compete at the national level. I couldn't foresee this getting contested at the local or even divisional levels.


[Modified by mojoGSR92, 6:17 PM 6/13/2002]

 

I knew someone had explained it before thanks

 

So the noun form would be triangulation(?). I wonder what the hell triangularization is then (must be from physics).

Anyway, then one can only legally use a dual point bar (single mounting position on each end)?