New here, not to old to honda. Just bought a 94 cd5 w/f22b1 motor. honest opinon, should I even waste my time with this engine? Im a huge fan of the f-series but this version of vtec seems pretty hopeless. Can I at least raise the vtec cutoff to around 4500 or should i just stick to an h swap or even a frankenstein? I've heard the h22 head will drop right on an f block. Any help is appreciated.

 

To Me Honestly its not worth it to have V TEC

 

Are you speaking on the b1 opposed to the a6,a4, etc... or vtec in general? I've owned nothing but f22a6 my whole life and I can feel a small difference. Im just looking for that "OMG VTEC KICKED IN" experience w/o droppin a new motor in.

 

Your not going to get that "VTACK just Kicked in Yo!" from a B1 without swapping in a new cam (level 2 at least) and getting a tune. Moving the VTEC engagement on a stock cam would probably make it worse. Also the F22B1 head doesn't flow as well as the F22A series heads do. So you are a bit behind the 8 ball to start off.

What are you looking for other than mad VTEC? The F22B1 would be a good base for a boosted buildup. N/A not so much......

 

h swap or turbo.

dont mess with the vtec on the f motor (as in adjusting it). the vtec for the F22 is NOTHING like H22a vtec. Its more like a little bump to get things going..

 

x3454654654645!

Swap or Boost that F!

 

I agree with everyone else...the f-series VTEC is pretty weak, some have even called it eco-VTEC because it is meant less for power and more for economy.

 

Im not lookin to run 10 sec. or anything special, I just want a small project and a little more fun outta driving. First vtec engine iv'e owned and needless to say i was a little disappointed. I'll just have to keep my focus on the top end i guess. thnx 4 the info

 

I wasnt changing the engagement, I just wanted to keep her in vtec a little longer. Hopefully the cam profile will let her breathe, or maybe it'll just run like a bag of crap til i let off the gas lol

 

I'm not sure if I follow what you are trying to do.

Once VTEC is engaged is stays on until the RPM or load drops back down below the VTEC disengagement point. I have seen some people post that it shuts off after 3200 rpm. AFAIK that is not correct. The F22B1 VTEC is not active between 2300 - 3200 rpm, it is set to engage at an RPM between 2300 & 3200 based on sensor/engine perimeters.

I could be wrong but I've never seen a VTEC disengagement point set at a higher RPM than the VTEC engagement point. The reason the F22B1 VTEC is set to engage at such a low RPM is because of the Accords highway cruising RPM.

 

Well personally I am of the opinion that the f22b1 is not too bad of a motor and head to start with depending on what your intending to do with it.

What you trying to work toward here, n/a or small shot or maybe turbo? Hp goal in mind? I see you say something more fun, whats fun to you?

Is the vtec utterly useless on the b1, no. Does it make a marked difference in performance, yes but how marked a difference depends on your perspective. Its not setting the world on fire and is not like you experience with a dohc vtec.

 

@ghost: Your absolutely right, I was under the impression that "eco-vtec" disengaged around 3200rpm. I guess there's no point to wiring a vtec light now

 

I am also in the same situation. I'm picking up my 94 ex in a couple weeks. I want to keep it all motor, and achieve possibly 230-250whp. is this plausible with an h22? if not, then I'll probably just build the F and boost it. money isn't too much of an issue

 

Sure it's plausible. With a properly planned build and the right amount of money anything is plausible.

Check out the All motor dyno thread for H22 builds in that power range.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/official-all-motor-dyno-thread-1583606/

Definitely requires some new engine internals and possibly some head work to reach 250whp.

 

No matter what anyone says the F series are strong engines. Just do simply things first and see where you get. I have a F22B1 in my project accord and it can def pull. I beat a B20si prelude with some mods. Just gotta know what you want out of it and go for it!

 

i also own a F22b1 vtec, and let me tell u, its a beast!, My vtec engagement point is at 4500 rpm...its a strong powerful engine, and can get high results depending on ur power goals. its not an h22a but its up there..when a friend of mine test drove my car, he said it felt as powerful as an h22a but lighter....my f22b1 sadly blew out n dont know wut it has.......i hear it culd be a blown head, piston,..so i decided im going to swap it for an h22a since i want higher power gains on my car.

 

As said above, sohc vtec f22b1's have varied engagement of vtec between 2300-3200 (ecu controled depending on manifold pressure and tps signal) until you reach the rev limiter. There is some other factors that have to be met for engagement but those are normal stuff... like must be over 6.2 mph, coolant temp 50deg C or higher, proper oil pressure, etc.

Its plausible to swap in an H and mod it for 230-250whp. Even with money not being much of an issue, I would consider going boosted F and saving a bit of money. It will get you to that whp goal and do it much more cost effectively then an all motor H swap and buildup.

 

Alot of good answers, i dont even kno wat 2 do... i'll just stick to the I.H.E. for now and roll with the punches.

 

I have a 94'EX F22B1 also. Does anyone know why Honda only made that motor for two years (94'-95' other years are different)? I think either it was too expensive to build and they went cheaper, or had flaws and was prone to problems. I hope it's because of costs.

 

@JOEBULL: I think its because (In My Opinon) its the gayest version of vtec (relative to "real" vtec) but im not hatin, vtec is vtec even if it's not the best possible version, it's better than "nothing" (f22-non vtec). Honda tried something and "failed" (again, opinion i dont mind "eco-vtec" it's just not the same as I-Vtec) But than again, thats dual-cam...

 

if its popsicle its possible

 

They made the F22B1 VTEC for 4 years 94, 95, 96 & 97. The only thing that changed was the OBD between 95 & 96

 

The F22b1 was actually made and put in accord for 4 years... '94 '95 '96 '97. As said above. It was on the Ward's Top 10 engines list for a couple years, which is nothing amazing but a recognized accomplishment.

At any rate the F22b1 was basically just like any other of the long proven F22 varients just with a different head on it than previous generations that incorporated an economical sohc vtec head design in an economically conscious car while bumping the power a bit to give it a little face-lift of sorts. You have to remember in the mid 90's when these motors were produced, the Accord was selling well and it was well suited to them. Things were alot different than today. Looking at it today your going to have to consider a huge difference in many variables that shaped its design 16+ years ago when it was being developed.

Also consider the F23a1 sohc vtec head is a spitting imagine of a F22b1 sohc vtec head design in fact. So the design was solid enough to continue and not something I would say was flawed or cost effective. It basically recieved some updates and was put on the F23.

No imo I think its something more along the lines of the b1 design sucessfully ran its course in 4 years, then honda moved to a slight updated varient of it for another 4 years (F23a1 sohc vtec from '98-'02) as part of the generation change beginning in '98. Then the market demanded something different and the accord under went another round of changes for the '03 model beginning again another generation, at which time Honda moved to the new staple 4cyl. engines with the K series.

 

The problem that this particular Vtec engine has is not unique to it. It is a problem with all single cam Vtec engines. The Vtec system works by using s high lift cam lobe that sits in between the two normal camshaft lobes on the cam. A third rocker arm rides along this camshaft under normal operation but does not interface with the valves. When the Vtec is activated the third rocker arm is mechanically coupled with the two normal rocker arms. Once they are linked all three rocker arms will follow the third cam lobe, and the Vtec valve duration is followed.

The problem with a Vtec system on a single overhead cam engine is that you run out of room in the cylinder head for all of the cam lobes and rocker arms. There are sixteen lobes on the camshaft for a sixteen valve engine, and to add Vtec to the intake and exhause valves would require adding eight more rocker arms and eight more cam lobes.

So you can only use the Vtec system to run a high duration high lift profile for one set of valves. (in the F22B1 it is the intake valves). If you are planning on building an F engine the most commonly used head is any head from the F22a series of engines. The ports on the head flow better, and you can use an H23 for F22a6 intake manifold, which flow better and have dual intake runners. So you end up with better flow numbers than the Vtec F22B1 head.

My advice is unless you are planning on tearing the engine down and building it, or going n/a with low boost levels. You should do I/H/E and a cam and call it a day. Or swap it out for an H series motor.

There is nothing inherently bad or wrong in the design. It is just that it is not suited for very high performance engine building as well as other honda engines/heads etc are.

 

I think we should clarify also its not a problem with the motor design, a hopeless motor, etc... rather it is not the most responsive and ideal motor compared to dohc vtec's for bolt-on or fairly mild n/a builds.

Thats why you just put some boost on it.

Seriously though it all depends on what your going to be satisfied with honestly... if you have some lofty n/a goals, you might consider an H or K series... unless you want to spend a good bit on the F to address its shortcomings in n/a situations.