Hi guys,

Since I got my dynasty 200dx i've been welding quite a bit at home (I've got an 8x6m garage dedicated to being a work shop).

In New Zealand we're stuck on adsl with crappy quality.. Normally I can hold a connection to my isp for weeks on end, but without fail whenever I weld, be it AC or DC the connection inside drops and struggles to reconnect.

I called my ISP and asked if they had heard of this before and they remarked it was rather strange since obviously the welder has nothing to do with phone lines at all..

Nothing else in the house stalls/reboots/crashes.. Not even my cheap chinese 8 port switch.. Just my DSL modem/router..

Has anyone noticed this?

Cheers

 

HF board in the welder interferes with the delicate electronics involved with internet and phone lines. This happens at the welding shop I work for. We havent figured out away to fix it. We have tryed everything.

 

tinfoil hat for your workshop? seriously, maybe if you shielded the modem?

 

RF interference is pwning you. Try routing your DSL cabling away from wall outlets, etc.

 

drive a separate ground spike for the welder

 

same thing happens to me, though instead of a welder, i have things like battery chargers, soldering iron, etc.., plugged into the same (what's it called) as the modem (d-link) & it always cuts out when i plug those things in. i guess it's sensitive

 

My first thought was RFI. Then, I realized it could be the line - meaning the A/C line that feeds the DSL modem. i.e. line surge and brownout conditions.

You should be running a UPS on your PC - if not, maybe time to get one. If you have one, plug modem into it if it isn't already.

I you don't have a UPS and OPT to get one, go for a used one from eBay. APC makes good one's. At least 1kw for size as you will get a decent UPS with voltage leveling and such.

 

Thanks for the posts guys.. Everyone is pointing at RF interfearance..

Nothing disconnects/drops/reboots APART from the dsl modem.. I have a Dlink one here that I might try and see if it still does it.. should be interesting

 

If you telephone wire is twisted pair, then no RF interference exists. Others have discuss something also known as a ground loop. Interference for the same reason that a ground loop causes hum in a stereo system.

First all utilities must enter and be earthed to a common earth ground. If not, then you have ground loops.

Second, wire from modem to service entrance is best a twisted pair wire direct to that subscriber interface. Any other wires that go to telephones, answering machine, etc, are best connected separately at that same location via a filter. Yes, the DSL filter is best located where all other phone lines meet the DSL twisted pair wire at the subscriber interface.

Is a light bulb, powered from the same receptacle as the DSL modem, dimming to 50% intensity? If not, a UPS will do nothing useful. If yes, then you have a serious house (human safety) wiring problem that must be corrected. But again, a UPS is not a solution.

And finally, what is DSL signal strength in dBs. If you DSL does not have sufficient signal to noise ratio, then most anything can cause short dropouts. You get that number by logging into the DSL modem's server (192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1) to locate dB signal strength or signal to noise numbers (attenuation numbers will also be provided). A completely defective signal strength can mean normal (or slower) DSL service most of the time.

 

110 welder?
Welder plugged in an outlet that runs off an electrical line that feeds multiple other outlets including the one feeding your modem?

If you ain't sure, it's easy to find out.
Turn on your welder, turn on your modem.
Turn off the breaker that feeds you welder in the breaker panel.
If both your welder and modem turn off when you flip the breaker, then both are using the same line. You don't want that.

I doubt you're loosing dsl signal. I think when you pull the trigger and start welding, your modem is just no longer getting enough power to function properly.

 

Welder is wired for 230v, remember, I live in new zealand.
Breaker for the welder is completely seperate from the modem. Modem is in the house, garage is about 10 meters from house

 

Four actions were recommended so that you can have useful answers. Followed later with solutions. Without answers to those four suggestions, then wild speculation such as insufficient power are only possible replies. Your replies will only be as useful as the facts that you first post. Posted were four suggestions to have facts.

 

Hello I keep killing hard drives when I use my 220v tig. I ruined maybe 3 of them, it doesn't happen right away but they stop working over a period of time. I now unplugh my computer tower completely from everthing when I weld. what could be the problem thanks

 

The connection isn't a simple possitive-negative energy flow. They use something called packets, and with modulation-demodulation ("modem") from analog to digital any disruption can kill the signal. DSL is VERY suceptable to electronic noise. Recall when the big problem with early DSL was you had to live 1-2 miles from a provider's "hub" to connect?

One thing you can try is to completely redo your phone wiring with shielded wiring. It's not as cheap as normal phone wire, but still half the price of cat-5 by the foot. If you've ever wired EF's to mpfi/obd1, you'll know the new distributor sensor can require shielded wire because it's very sensitive.


For the hard drive issue, it's probably because your wall power & psu suck. Wall power drops too far or ripples, and the psu can't smooth the current. Hard drive's power flucuates or dips, causing all sorts of electronic hell. Get a decent "UPS" or power conditioner for your PC. That will be like an electronic isolator, and will also keep it running to save files if you loose power too.

 

Obviously this is a different problem. So much different that it should be a new thread. For example, is the computer always powered on? On a separate circuit? Did you inspect and fix the necessary earthing? How far apart (meters of wire) is everything? How far apart (physically located) is everything? What did the manufacture's hard disk diagnostic report for each failed drive?

You post has only two things in common with Salival's. You have a welder. And a useful answer is possible only after relevant facts are provided.

What is the job of a PSU? To take 'dirtiest' power a computer will ever see (ie power from a UPS in battery backup mode) and convert that to ideal 'cleanest' power. Why is your power supply not doing its job?

 

Ok sorry i forgot to say this happenes even if I turn the computer off. The drives become unusable, where i can't even reformat them. If I unplug the computer from everything then it seems ok. The welder is on a differnt circuit , different floor and on the other side of the house vs the computer.

I don't have a ups but a fairly new power supply.


Oh and I am using the same dynasty.


.

 

The welder is essentially creating a brown-out, just very momentarily. That's where lights dims but don't go out. Your line voltage actually drops because one massive electrical route outside was shut off and re-routed. Cities and houses with bad/old elec wiring will see this more often than not with high-load applications.

A psu requires a certain amount of power and voltage to do it's job. Get below a certain point, and it simply can't supply the right power. It's like handing someone 2 bricks and asking them to build 3 houses. It probably won't get done...

 

Perfectly ideal voltage for all electronics is light bulbs at 50% intensity. That is the number missing in “a certain amount of power and voltage to do it's job”. No numbers means that sentence said nothing useful. For computers, the number is 40% intensity.

If welder is causing even half that dimming, then household wiring may be defective. Even 1930 wiring should be more than sufficient. Extreme dimming is a first indication of a human safety problem. Fix the problem.

In one home, they ignored the problem. And the earth ground was also missing. Fortunately nobody was home when electricity found a ground path via the gas meter - and the house exploded. Dimming lights are solved by fixing a wiring problem - ie a loose connection, corrosion, etc.

If lights are above 50%, then AC voltage is perfectly ideal - does not explain DSL or disk drive failures.

What happens when voltage goes too low? Computer turns off. That simple. No damage. Any voltage from 0 to 120 volts can never damage any 120 volts electronics. That is usually unknown when knowledge comes from retail advertising. But that has always been an international design requirement.

Low voltage does not cause electronics damage. Either the power supply provides 100% right on voltage to disk drives. Or power supply powers off.

Now, formatting and other such symptoms provide near zero information. To avoid future disk drive failures, you get the free diagnostic provided by more responsible computer manufacturers or from the disk drive manufacturer. Then report those facts. Only those facts can provide a useful answer - to explain and eliminate all future electronics threats.

A new power supply is no different than an old one. All are likely to be good or bad. In fact, a new supply tends to have a higher failure rate - infant mortality. How good is supply? Without numbers from a meter, then you don’t know.

Why do things that have numbers? For the same reason why the OP still has no useful answers. Until he "get that number by logging into the DSL modem's server (192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1) to locate dB signal strength or signal to noise numbers". Numbers are always necessary to have an immediate and useful answer.

Amazing how many times numbers are requested before someone finally gets it. Numbers - such as if lights are well above 50% intensity, then voltage is ideal. Numbers from a disk diagnostic or from a DSL's status page.

 

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 1:44:06
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 897 / 6.240
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 2,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,0 / 19,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 21,0 / 39,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 13,0 / 14,0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 90 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4.364
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 538 / 4.016

I have a unix server (p3 era) and 8 port generic switch running off the same power outlet that the dsl modem runs off, As far as I can tell they are uninterrupted i.e it's isolated to the dsl modem

 

Now we have numbers. Your DSL modem and their DSLAM have sufficient signal strength - 13 and 14 dBs.

Now how does that number change when doing welding? If talking and someone revs up lots of motors, then the SN Margin for your conversation goes down - you cannot hear him. Same applies to the modem. If telephone line noise is causing interference, then those SN margin numbers will drop below 10. If no drop, then the problem is not found there. Move on to other suspects and never look back. Numbers are necessary for definitive answers -to never look back.

If the SN margin numbers do drop, then we know what must be solved.

Appreciate a fundamental concept. Solutions start with the numbers. First get numbers to identify the problem. Fixing a problem comes later. Report back what happens to those numbers after numerous welds.