hey, I just stumbled on to this forum today (I am a G2IC regular, if that matters) and man, does it have a lot of info! This is just what I have been looking for. there isnt a whole bunch of useless one liners here, just a lot of people who seem like they know what they are talking about.

I bought an EF a couple of months ago for a project/fun/learn/kind of race car and I love it. I went to an auto-x and I am now hooked. There is another one on sunday and I cant wait. I am building the car for fun not for a certian class, so it's just me in some prepared class (no interior). Oh well, I still have fun and do pretty well for an $800 grocery getter with crappy tires. My parents own a fab shop so I will be making all that I can for the car in the way of stiffners, a small roll cage, a dash bar (no more wire ties for the cluster).

Anyway, I just thought I'd say hi. I hope to learn a lot here and to contribute as much as I can. I hope you have room for one more.

Ben

 

Hello Ben,

What took you so long to get here? Where are you running Sunday, Bellingham? Might make it down. It is Marc from G2IC!

 

Welcome to the forum. If you've been reading it for a while you'll have noticed that intelligent, well-thought-out questions about track and autox subjects get good responses. However...questions about street racing, or generic "what's the best tire" questions, will get you flamed quicker than a BK Broiler. Also, the "Search" function is your friend. It's not the best in the world, but can be made to work. Follow these simple rules, and you can learn a bunch and meet some great folks.

 

LOL! Now that's some funny chit.

That's some of the best advice you could ever get.

Welcome Ben!

 

Hi Ben!

Question - What is:and how is it different from a medium or a large one?

 

Hmmm, smells like BK Broiler in here....

eh Drew?

 

I wouldn't go that far . . . yet. Perhaps what he meant by a "small cage" would be what we refer to as a "rollbar".

 

I'm sure he meant "small rollcage" as in "small suspension", "small cams", "small antiroll bar" etc... ie: nothing fancy but effective or something along those lines...

But i'll let Ben himself confirm that...

 

That's what I thought. Rollbar or NHRA-style 6pt. Or maybe a full 6pt (where a "big" cage would be a WRC, Prod/GT, or European Touring tpye cage).

 

The auto-x on sun is about 2 miles from my house in my school's parking lot. And the cage (i guess it's just a roll bar) will be nothing fancy. i still have a lot of research to do for it. I mainly just want to do a hoop with an X, some bars going back to the trunk (I'm thinking 4) and bars going next to the doors. the whole thing will be welded in. And we have a mandrel bender with the right dies for 1.75" OD .095" tube (pretty sure thats what I'm going to use). It's a pretty light car and I dont see a need for .120 wall. I know some guys who build rock crawlers from scratch and they were going to help me out with some of the design.

Ben

 

Before you go ahead and build yourself a cage, then weld it in, decide if you think you will ever move into road racing. If so, then take the time to make sure that whatever you are building and installing will pass the safety regulations for NASA and SCCA. That way you don't have to pull it out and replace it later. Also, pay attention to where you run the rear bars - most groups do not allow you to run them directly to the shock towers!

The best piece of advice that I can give (which will be ignored), is do it once, and do it right. Just spend the money now and don't cut corners, because it WILL cost you more in the long run. That, and never lose track of the fact that you are doing this for fun...

Matt

 

I was going to try and make it as legal as I possibly could for all the sanctioning bodies. I still have a lot of research to do before I start making anything. Thanks for the advise. I always try to do it right the first time.

Ben

 

Since the topic is drifting in that direction...

What are the advantages/disadvantages of a welded-in vs. bolted-in rollcage? I would think that the welded cage would have a slight weight advantage while the bolted-in cage would have the advantage of being easier to replace. Any other considerations that would go into the choice?

 

A welded cage gives you considerably more stiffness. It will have a much more dramatic effect on handling. The only downside is that it can't be removed....


Matt

 

whadda mean it can't be removed?? anything can be removed with a torch! =P

 

The welded will be stiffer and possibly weigh less.

Mitch Piper's Grand-Am Miata cages weigh at least 50lbs less than the Autopower bolt-in. Not sure of the reason - if I had to guess, I'd say Mitch uses thinner tubing than Autopower. He can do this b/c the weight difference between a stock Miata and gutted Miata is sufficient to allow thinner wall tubing (the SCCA GCR has a weight split somewhere around 2300lbs but don't quote me on it b/c I'm not looking at the book right this second). BTW, his cage also has quite a few additional tubes that the Autopower lacks - NASCAR driver door protection, Petty bar, and some gusseting of the halo, so in theory should weight more. Also, the Autpower has all the hardware and sleeves required to hold it together.

 

The difference is the SCCA spec for a car that weighs what a Miata does is 1.5"OD. ALL Autopower cages are 1.75"OD. That is why Mitch's cages are 50lbs. lighter. He is using the actual diameter tubing recommended for the application instead of using bigger than necessary.

 

Well, the Autpower isn't larger than required (at least not in the case of the 1st gen RX-7). The car, with interior, requries the larger tubing. Gut the car, and it looses enough pork to make do with the 1.5". I have a feeling the Miata is in the same boat (anybody know the SSB weight for a Miata?).