How's it going guys. My apologies ahead of time for a recurring topic but I just need a straight answer if possible from experienced Koni yellow users.

I just recently switched to Koni yellows on my DC4 integra, while paired with 450R/560R springs. I was previously on the same springs but with illuminas for the last 4 years.... definitely underdamped but it held me over for ~20 track days. The switch to yellows finally happened and i'm just looking for for shock setting advice.

I'm assuming the rear shocks being that the spring rate is at 560 should just be turned to full stiff. The fronts being at 450 is what I'm interested in... will full stiff be overdamped?

Thanks in advance.

 

they're adjustable for a reason.
make it work best for you.
each track and condition will have different settings.

 

heel_touge, thanks for the input. Yes, I definitely agree with you on adjusting per track (I spend most of my time on infineon, Thill, SOW and probably Laguna this year). I guess I was specifically asking if I should even bother with adjusting the front yellows if 450 is pretty high already and the OTS are maxed out already. I kept my illuminas at full stiff through the years because I knew that they were having trouble handling the spring rates already, so there was no need to even play with the damping settings; should I assume the same with the OTS yellows...

 

Not true. Having different settings for different conditions is only true if you're in high-levels of motorsports.

I don't know about high-end suspension but Koni Yellows are set-it and forget-it. They have only one 'sweet' spot, my understanding is that the adjustments are only to find that sweet spot. Since they're made on a production line, you don't get perfect matches shock-to-shock. The adjustment ***** allow you to match your set to each other. The best way to achieve these results is on a shock dyno.

Take Bilstein for example. Their Sport line is comparable to Koni Yellows in quality and durability but they don't have adjustments. Why? Because they only have one sweet spot for a given range of spring rate. You could rebuild Bilsteins to your liking just like Yellows, depending on the rates you want to run.

Yes, even spring rates don't matter with Koni Yellows. They still have one sweet spot. After you find that, you don't touch them no matter what rates (as long as their within the limits of the valving ofcourse).

If you set your Yellows on full-stiff all you do is close the valve inside and the shock no longer does what it's supposed to do. No oil is allowed to pass through the shims when this is done.

I never got the chance to dyno my yellows unfortunately so I have no graphs to prove my statements but this is a great article on the topic:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

From 'feel' alone I've found a quarter turn from full stiff to be a nice ride. Turning all my shocks to this setting doesn't mean they're all perfectly matching to each other however so I hope to someday actually get these on the dyno and match them properly.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks Hobos.... I think your answer was exactly what I was looking for and clarified my question. Yes, I am looking for that sweet spot for my spring rate and was just looking to see if people have found it and can take some of the guess work out of it. From what you've describe the batch to batch variation is going to be a factor and every yellow owner will have to experiment themselves. I guess I really do want to just "set it an forget it." I'll go play around with them at the track. Thanks!!

 

^
thats what i was about to say.

imo stay towards one polar end or the other where ots units will be closer to equal at a "specific setting".

 

So you just got Koni's and your buddy has Koni's but keeps blowing them out?

Anyway, I disagree with nearly everything 1200 Hobo's posted. Dennis (the author of that site) is a great guy and there is a lot of really good information on his site, but his experience with Koni Yellows is a direct contrast to the thousands of others that use the shocks without issue. The Koni yellows I used, with my own valving, had a left right variance of ~1%. Chassis flex, bushing hysteresis, control arm flex, suspension bind, severe left and nose heavy weight distribution and a myriad of other variables introduced a bigger % change then that. Yeah, in the perfect world you'd want your dampers matched. However, there are a bunch of much bigger fish to fry with a production tin-top turned race car then a minor % difference in your dampers. Even if there were a discernible benefit to equalizing the dampers, set the softer shock a tiny bit stiffer, or the stiffer shock a tiny bit softer. Of course, you've got to dyno your stuff before you can even do that. In other words, don't dismiss Koni Yellows as a damper based on Dennis' site alone. You may want to ping Lee at Koni to get the other side of the story.

To answer the OP, you have to first realize that dampers are several compromises rolled into one part. Depending on the damper velocity, you may be underdamped (high speed) or overdamped (low speed). You'll want to play around with different damper settings to find the one you like. Personally, I like a very crisp car, so I run more front shock then most. Try different settings. Make a change and see if you can feel how it makes the car feel differently. If you find you can't tell a difference between stiff or soft on either end yet, and many are at this point, set 'em in the middle of the range at both ends and drive the car more. As your skills improve, your sensitivity to the damper change will also improve and you can then better determine what you like.

 

This will allow you to experience the curious handling quirk known as jacking down. A shock drasticly too stiff in rebound will work kind of like a ratchet eventually binding the suspension. This will result in the affected end of the car storing and releasing energy in some potentially spectacular ways.

Read your Koni manual.

 

Im by no means of high level motorsports, but adjusting my damping for wet/moist conditions or adjusted for different tracks has absolutely changed the attitude of the car.

again, im just an HPDE'er without a whole lot of experience, and i have alot to learn, but i know that when i go to putnam my damper settings are different than those when i go to nashville.

ya know i would most likely learn faster if i just learned to drive with how i have it set, but i've got it so why not use it?

 

I also don't understand why only high-level motorsports would be limited to the benefit of adjustability. Different tracks require different setups, whether it be alignment, spring rate, or damping. If anything, we should all be emulating the people who do it best, assuming its within our ability to do so and to make use of said differences.

As one example, I have to adjust my shocks VERY differently for Gingerman vs. VIR based on pavement quality alone.

 

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm assuming the bottomline is to just get the car out there and play with it until it feels right. I did that with my old set of shocks and they gave me a good 4 years of great fun on track. I just thought that my suspension seems to be a dime a dozen and that maybe someone could just help me "set it and forget it." Anyways, we'll see how they do. Cheers!

 

IMHO, it's the compression damping that needs track to track adjustments, but rebound damping, once you get it right, seems to work well in most instances. If you only have 1-way adjustables, I think you are adjusting rebound damping to compensate for wrong compression damping, and it will never feel "right", until you have experienced 6 way adjustables, and then you will really know what feels right. IMHO.

 

I don't anticipate ever owning 6-way adjustable shocks, so I'll have to stick with what works for my lowly single-adjustable Ohlins I suppose

Legitimately I do recognize that even what I have is a budget compromise and not 100% ideal. I think that is the case for 98% of our board members though, and so most applicable. In an ideal world we'd all be driving 911 GT3-RSRs or something too, but...

 

Okay, so after a few weeks of using the butt dyno, it's evident to me that a 1/4 turn from full stiff for my spring rates (450F, 560R) seem to be a good baseline point to start at. I'll be adjusting up and down accordingly as I go from track to track.