So I'm making the cross over from single cam turbo to LS all motor.
I originally intended to turbo my LS but have switched things up and plan on doing a fairly simple n/a build
Looking for a peppy street car, and I have come to learn that in n/a it is MUCH more crucial
for parts to work together in more unison then they do in boosted applications.

With that being said here is the set up I plan on running;
Stock bore LS

81 mm p30 pistons

OEM rods

ARP rod bolts

Balanced crank and bottom end

ACL bearings

GSR or b16 oil and Water pumps any reason why one would be better then the other?

For the time I plan on running the the LS head, I understand it is not that great of a flowing head etc but that's what I have and that's what I'm going to run for now.

Mild PnP with valve springs, retainers and valves. Kind of stuck between the crower 404 or the 403. Once again not the best cam IMO but its pretty affordable and I am again not looking to extract as much power as I possible can squeeze from the motor. Contemplating a brian crower stage 3? I want to say they are close to the same just better quality from BC. But I am always open to suggestions as to what you guys would prefer running with experience running or tuning them.

Bisimoto or evolution cam gears.

A little unsure on injector size for a set up like this, like I said before coming from the F/I side to the N/A side is a big difference.

I will be using the stock IM and TB at first simply because I need to get the motor into my car and running. When extra money presents itself I will upgrade to a pX and larger TB.

I have a GSR trans and will be running open diff for a while as well.

I don't feel that my set up should yield more then 170ish@ the wheels but maybe I am either being conservative or new at the whole whp guesstimate with out a turbo.

Thanks for taking the time to real all this mess and answer accordingly.

-Daniel

 

Welcome to the world of all motor...and LS, at that.
With a larger cam (BC3 or 404) and good bolt ons, 170whp isn't unreasonable. I would go with the larger cams, being that you'll have plenty of compression to match them.
AFAIK, the VTEC fluid pumps are the same, either will be much happier at higher RPM than the stock LS pumps. Stock valves are also fine for your goals...that money can be spent elsewhere. If you decide you want more compression, the LS head has a lot of room for shaving...in your case, I'd probably take .020 or so off. Especially the 404/Stage 3 cams would love the compression. The stock injectors should be fine, I believe...I'll have to defer that to someone else though for sure.

 

Thanks for actually taking the time to reply. I'm sure most of those questions have been asked before and while I found answerers that half way answered my questions, they didn't answer them directly.
I really would like to go 404 or BC3 but as I was looking at the specs on the both seems the BC3 might potentially be a tad more agressive? I would really like a new billet cam VS a regrind but its all up to what I can find out about them both.
I was sure all the pumps were interchangeable but the VTEC pumps will not make the oil and water bubble @ higher RPM's since they are designed to be able to accommodate the higher stress load from a VTEC equipped engine. My stock injectors are no good so I need to replace them, I would have no issue going with an OEM replacement such as ITR's or s2k's. I think rdx's would be to big? I mean those are 440's and I run them on my turbo motor right now. Thanks for all your help! Lets see some more facts and experiences?

 

I can't remember offhand but the BC stuff is usually more aggressive than the original crower counterparts. Both are new cams...not reground. I didn't mean to infer that the LS fluid pumps were the same as the VTEC pumps, I just wasn't 100% sure that the B16 parts were interchangeable with their taller-block siblings.

 

Alright, Ill look into the b16 pumps because they are for sure cheaper then the GSR units
I have decided to go with a b16 head and I want to run vtec rods vs the LS rods.
With the longer rods I would run less dome pistons to make sure I keep my piston to valve clearances good and also keep my final CR below 12.5:1
Any suggestions on using GSR rods and GSR pistons with the head decked and the block decked as well at the most .020 if that even works with my valve clearance.
I think if I can get close to 12.5:1 I will run pro 1's with accommodating valvetrain

 

now you say LSvtec? and the rods are effectively part of the crank. LS crank/rods, or GSR crank/rods

if you want pro 1 then get the pro valve springs. much easier potential upgrade later on.

and if you are going LSvtec then go easy on the milling. cr will go up quickly.

 

Invest on the cylinder head.that's where we make power.

 

Alright
The Brian crower stuff is alittle bit more aggresive than the crower except for the 405a which is higher than any of the BC stuff.

Oil pumps: OBDO-1 LS pumps are crap but the OBDII oil pumps are the exact same as the VTEC oil pump they dont prevent oil foaming they just create more psi.
Heres's a good write up on the subject: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...TopicID=115789

Water pumps: Yes the VTEC pump is designed to prevent cavitation at higher rpms becuase it spins slower so if you were to use a vtec water pump you will need to get a vtec timing belt as well.

Rods: No you do not want to use GSR rods on an LS crank since they are a different size. You can if you wanted to use a gsr crank/rod assembly but theres no point if your doing an LS/Vtec. Theres alot more than slapping in a set of GSR rods and a "low dome" piston and calling it a day.
Also heres a good site to calculate compression: http://zealautowerks.com/bseries.

Injectors: Use this to calculate your approximate required injector size: http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

 

Back when we were kids my little sister had an LS with Crower 404s in it and it made 152 dynojet. We later put a stock B20B with just some short turn work on the port (equivalent to my Stage 1 portwork) and the car made 184 dynojet, which I thought was pretty decent for the low compression motor. Went 13.7 @ 100 in an EK hatch.

I wouldn't invest in the head. Spend that money on a stock GSR head. It will cost you the same, and you will be ahead.

 

Alright I will go ahead and stick with the LS rods and attempt to match a piston to acheieve my desired compression ratio. And I will absolutely run the necessary valve train with that aggressive of a cam.

I plan on it. A friend and local builder of mine is doing all the chamber work and the porting/polishing etc etc.

I have been messing arounf with the zeal calculator for the last week just finding what options I have available. I will check out the tem integra and the RC injectors site. Thank you very much for those links. I understand there is more then just putting pistons and rods in the motor and "calling it a day" and I had no intentions of making it sound like that is all I was going to do. I only was considering the GSR rods with a less aggressive piston so I could use the GSR rods and not the LS ones. Because with the Higher dome pistons on the LS rod will work I could reach the same compression ratio with a slightly longer rod and a lower dome piston.

I think I have decided on b16 head not because it "flows better then the gsr" But for the fact it will not bump up my compression to high when I switch over from the LS head to the VTEC head. But thank you for your personal experiences. Those are what I am looking for.

 

It is hardly a compression difference. Not even worth mentioning, and the B16 doesn't flow better than a GSR. It really doesn't matter, they are similar, but if you had a choice I'd run the GSR. My point was, the money you spend on porting your LS and buying cams could be spent on a VTEC head now and you are much better off. It isn't just the port flow, but the VTEC heads allow for a larger valve and camshaft. Also the rockers don't suck.

 

no the point is, with the pro 1's the tuner valve springs are acceptable. but if you then ever want bigger cams you have to change the springs all over again.
so just start off with the pro springs and be done with it.

 

I agree completely with you in that aspect and I have since decided to do so. I spoke with Dave Green, not big on the internet but a very very good builder local to me and he showed me head comparisons and dyno charts etc of built and ported LS heads vs Stock and them build b16/gsr heads and most of the time a stock vtec head still flows better then the built and worked over LS head. Thanks man

Yea I spoke with skunk2 earlier today actually and he said that the pro1's are lighter and good up to 11k rpms so if I eventually want to go bigger I can.

I found a good deal on a set of b16 pistons and rings so with those in my LS according to zeal should be around 12:1 with .002 decked, I was also recommended the high comp valves from skunk2 that will bump up my cr .3, I am considering tuner3's over the pro1's for more of a daily driven car yet still making good power AND I am not attempting to do this cheap but of course the more money I can save the better. Because I am not going for broke trying to make high hp out of a 1.8L n/a car.