Hello all, I recently purchased a bare b18c1 block, head, and crank from a 95 gsr. I am new to building and was wondering what my next step should be from here. I would assume the machine shop would be my next step, but what are the things I am going to want to tell them? If you are uncertain if you want to go boost or all motor, do you have to decide which before you do? If so, what recommendations do people have versus one or the other. Will different parts be used in the building process if I go boost or na? Do I need to buy any parts before the machine shop that will need to be installed by them during this process? What brands are the best for turbo builds? or na builds for that matter? What is the difference between sleeving and not sleeving for either build? Any help, and I mean any help at all will be GREATLY appreciated! This will be the first engine I will be building on my own and really want to enjoy the process. Thanks to all who have the time to help.

 

You got a lot of searching to do if you don't know the difference between a NA and FI build. Good thing you're asking here, you can learn alot from these builders. NA will require more compression than FI. Decide what you want before you start buying parts. The stock sleeves can handle around 300 whp on FI builds. Stock sleeves will obviously handle a NA build. FI will also require much more fuel.

 

Well, what is the average cost of a fi build versus the average cost of an na build? As well as average life expectancy of each motor if built properly.

 

Talk to a shop that can do it for you.

 

Well, that all depends on how crazy you wanna go with either build. What are your power goals and intended use for the car? I just finished up a simple NA build, dyno'd 193 whp and it only cost around $1500 with parts and machine work. But then again I did the labor for a good friend of mine for free. Had I charged him shop rates, he would have easily spent another 500-700 for the labor.
Same can be said for FI build, it depends on how much power you want to be able to handle. I've seen stock gsr blocks handle 330 whp on boost with a good tune, and my buddies turbo, tune and supporting mods ran him close to $5000 and that was with him doing all the installs and only paying for dyno time cause he tuned the car himself with hondata S300. The turbo alone was $3k.

My personal NA build just hit 70k miles, I made 198 whp a while back and compression numbers are still 230 psi. This build cost me close to $2k with motor parts, clutch and flywheel.

 

I believe I will be going na with this build. Hoping to get between 200-250. What is the first step I should be taking at this point?

 

If you want an all motor build you need a realistic goal 200whp to 250whp is a huge range. I would narrow it down also by how fast you wanna go 1/4 mile if that's what you're intended use for the vehicle will be.
There is more to going fast than just horsepower.
Look here at some other members builds, and the kind of power they are making.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/official-all-motor-dyno-thread-1583606/
Also, tell us more about yourself, what is your budget, your mechanical skill level, access to tools, machine work, what are your goals for the vehicle, etc.

 

Skill level: first motor I will be building, I understand I need to torque everything to specs and need to get a good torque wrench. Everything that needs to go to a machine shop to be cleaned, or installed will go there. I want this to be cost effective, but I have money. I can use others tools if need be, and I understand the basic knowledge of installing the parts to spec, with the exception of headwork and machine work. I do not intend on racing this vehicle at all, but would like a nice motor with capabilities. 220-230 would be ideal i suppose.

 

I don't know how realistic that hp goal is (as in I really have no idea how much time/money it would take), but good luck with it.
Depending on how you plan on making the power, you might need to sleeve the block anyway. An example of why: I was going to bore my engine 2mm over, but I was told that was touch and go with the f22b2 stock sleeves, so I would have to sleeve the block to do it. I'm interested in everyone's answers here, might help me with my build.

 

maybe

 

220 bhp or 220 whp? There's a huge difference. If it's gonna be a daily driver, non-raced, I would just do an oem rebuild with some ITR pistons, ITR cams and upgrade the valvesprings, single runner intake manifold, quality header and exhuast and a good tune, unless you can score an ITR ecu.

 

Since replying to your other thread in FI, I've been thinking about this. What you really need to do is sit down with a pad and paper to make a list of all of the little parts that you're missing on the block and head. You may realize that you'll have to buy a swap to make sourcing all of those parts cost effective.

After you figure out all the little things you need (maybe even some big things like a tranny?), then you can start planning out your build. EMS, injectors, clutch, flywheel, new fuel filter, oil filter, oil, coolant, pistons, rods, squirter plugs (mandatory with some pistons), bearings, gasket set, head studs, tuning, piston ring compressor, ring grinder, plastigauge, bearing lube, rubber mallet, torque wrench, micrometer, gauges, header, exhaust, intake, intake manifold, cams, valves, springs, retainers, head resurfacing, other machine work... and the list goes on.

There's a rough list rattled off the top of my head that adds up to ~6000 at least, and on a stock bore na street driven b18c1, you're looking at *maybe* 200 whp? Not sure about the power estimate as I mainly deal with FI these days. Back in 2000 when I first swapped my civic, I really wanted to go all-motor until I rode in a turbo'd single cam hatch. Then it was all over.

Really high quality NA power adders can become just as expensive as a turbo system, but they don't offer the same overall power. Something to consider.

 

i just got the high performance honda builders handbook by joe pettit the other day (i saw several posts recomending it on these boards). he has a b20/b16 frankenstein in there that pulls a high 12 second in a CRX.
someone correct me if im wrong, but the piston diameters are the same ni a b18b and a b18c so its just the crank (bottom end wise) is the only difference as far as engine displacement goes correct? so if you put a b18b crank in a b18c it would have larger displacement. granted its .2L smaller than the b20. its titled a budget build in the book, heres whats in it:
b20 block
b16 head
DC 4 to 1 header if you cant find a JDM ITR header
chipped ecu for vtec+tune
adjustable cam gears
adjustable FPR
doesnt say what he used piston wise, although i doubt he used the stock 8.8:1 compression ratio of a b20b block
cold air intake

anyway its a good book, if you want i can see if i can scan some pages and email them to you.

 

Yeah the ls has a longer stroke than the gsr so the displacement is like 1834 vs 1797 cc if I remember correctly. B20's from different years have different CR's so he likely used one of the higher compression motors.

The problem is that the op has a b18c1 block and crank, which are not too great for a base by current all motor standards. The bare head doesn't help too much either.

 

any help at all would be appreciated xander1100

 

good thread, has a few set ups that are NA in your HP range https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/b20-vtec-vs-2-0l-b18c-1767759/ .

 

You must decide unless you try a really mild startup build. If NA, just get an LS crank and forged rods. well do that for turbo as well. Bore to 84mm when going NA. The biggest difference is power vs. engine response. turbo Hondas do not have poor engine response, it is just that NA can be very sharp. Also turbo usually has a power curve and torgue curve that is a curve. NA produces a moderately high but realatively flat torque curve, and a virtually linear power curve. The more extreme the racing, the more NA makes sense in my personal opinion, because there is a more usable power curve when the right cam is used. That is another factor, there are cam options that are completely different form turbo to NA, so you can't just switch to turbo with NA cam and vise versa. Turbo is probably the better deal when comparing price to power output. Remeber though, all the japanes companies that I have seen for Honda's produce NA parts, and rarely a supercharger. i.e. Toda, Spoon, Mugen, Jun; all of which participate in N1 racing

 

You don't need forged rods for an NA build, or even a mild FI build. I also hope you don't you can bore a stock B18C1 block to 84mm.

 

very helpful. Thanks guys. I am pretty much sold on the fi build at this point though. I have been reviewing a few threads, and have been inspired by builds. I just have to figure out where to start here. Thanks a lot xander1100 for the link.

 

bump

 

bump what? If your going forced induction, head over there (not trying to sound like a douche, just saying if you need FI guidance, the NA forum isn't the best place for it )