Rebuilt the entire front end on my '89 DX. Took it to get aligned, was informed AFTER they worked on it (forcing me to pay) that the camber isn't adjustable. The problem is, both front wheels have extreme negative camber (-2.5 and -2.4). The shop said I have to buy special $100 a piece adjustable ball joints to fix the camber.

Now, I realize the camber isn't "adjustable" per se on these cars. The camber isn't "adjustable" on my Maxima(s) either, but when I bolt it all up the camber is pretty much at 0 deg. so there's no aftermarket specialty camber correction that needs to be done.

So I find it odd that rebuilding the entire front end with stock parts (stock suspension, stock height, etc.) that I should have such extreme negative camber on the Civic. I mean, the stuff can only bolt up how it bolts up, so why would it be so negative?

Surely not every Civic that ever had a strut replaced, a ball joint replaced, etc. required aftermarket camber products to get the camber back in spec? :confused:

 

as long as toe is correct, your camber isn't really an issue. but something is bent like your lower crossmember or upper towers. why did you replace all those parts? accident?

 

Well, the camber is an issue if it's as far negative as mine no? I mean it's roasting my tires

No the car wasn't in an accident, I replaced the front suspension because I pretty much restored/rebuilt the car even down to the carpet. So of course I did all the bushings/joints/struts/etc in the process.

I realize if the car is wrecked it can cause camber issues, but the car wasn't wrecked. I THINK a previous owner years ago got in a SLIGHT fender bender on the driver side front but I'm almost certain it was merely cosmetic damage (corner light, etc.)

Plus, it'd have to be wrecked pretty much exactly the same on both sides for the camber to be nearly identical on either side wouldn't it?

This just all seems odd to me.. I really don't want to have to spend $200 bucks on adjustable ball joints just to get a stock Civic to not roast the tires

 

where did you get the parts? your upper or lower control arms can't be the right length.
did it look the same before?

 

That's A LOT of negative camber to have anyway. Did the shop give you a printout of the alignment specifications?

 

It could be that the car is wrecked, bent, lowered. Or the alignment guys were lying or exaggerating. It could be that whomever you bought the parts for screwed up and gave you the wrong thing, the suspension could be binding, or the shocks could be shorter length than stock.

Some thing has to be wrong.

 

your numbers are consistant though so I wouldnt say its from a wreck, do your tires look like the top goes in and the bottom's out? Mine are set at 2deg and you notice them I wish I had a pic to show you.

 

Weird, I just had the same problem fixed two days ago. I also have slight drivers side fender damage (cosmetic), and a stock ride height, struts, and springs.

I noticed on Monday after washing the car that the tires I bought new last May were almost bald inside and full tread on the outside. I took it to the local tire shop to bitch since I get the tires rotated evey 5k and no one had said anything.

They met me half way on 4 new tires, ate the aligment cost and installed upper ball joints at cost. I think it's actually a camber kit.They first tried lower ball joints but later figured out they were not replaceable. Said they were welded in.

I know nothing about suspension, ball joints or camber kits, but so far so good. The car tracks very well now (I can actually take my hand off the wheel and go straight). And the really cool part is that my steering wheel is now dead on instead of off to the left.

Hope this helps.

 

I don't remember the name of the place where I got the parts. It was online somewhere several years ago, I bought a whole kit that had the ball joints, tie rod ends, control arms, etc. and they sat around for a long time before I installed them over the winter. But before I installed everything I matched it all up with the stock parts and they were all identical, so I don't understand why the camber would be so negative.

I never had the car aligned before the rebuild (the car was pretty much junk so I really didn't do anything to it until I restored it) but I could tell from looking at it that the wheels didn't have any noticeable negative camber.

Yes, that's how I know that the wheels are at -2.4 and -2.4 deg. camber

Well the alignment guys weren't lying/exaggerating as this is a very reputable shop and they've worked on my lowered Maxima to get the camber in spec and have always been good to me. Plus, I know the camber isn't adjustable anyway, I'm just baffled as to why stock parts/stock height/etc. would have such extreme negative camber.

The parts I installed weren't wrong because I matched each part up with the stock before installing it and they were identical. The car isn't lowered and I know it hasn't been in a substantial wreck although like I said earlier I do believe it has been in a slight fender bender.


Yeah, that's what I was attempting to say in the earlier post. That if the car was wrecked it'd have to be wrecked almost miraculously exactly the same on both sides for the camber to be nearly identical.

Yes, I can see visually that the camber is excessively negative. I don't need a pic as I know what negative camber looks like :p I knew going to the shop that the camber was very negative and just in the few hundred miles I've driven the car breaking the engine in and working all the kinks out, etc. it's ruined my tires on the inside.

Well, unfortunately, I don't have a tire shop/alignment shop that I can get new tires and have them eat the cost on, as I installed everything on the car.

You said you got new tires last May - do you remember if you had extreme negative camber before that?

The lower ball joints aren't welded in, and they are replaceable. They're just held in with a c-clip and must be pressed (really can just hammer them) out. Although if you didn't know any better at first glance it does look like they're all one piece/welded/whatever so that may be why they told you that

I think Civics can have up to a degree of negative camber and be "in spec" even though personally I prefer to get my camber as close to 0 deg. as possible. The ball joints they said I need only allow for about a degree of adjustment so even at that I'd still be too far negative for my liking.

 

Well something has to be wrong. And if you have ruled everything out you missed something.

How do you know the car is at stock height? How did you measure this? Or are you just assuming? If it's on stock springs they will have sagged a lot by 200k+ miles. Did you measure the new shocks height versus factory? A lot of replacement shocks are shorter.

 

What are your caster readings?
EXACTLY what parts did you replace? I suspect you have poorly made or incorrect parts installed... specifically, upper control arms. But that's just a guess.


Do an ebay search for civic front camber kit, and you will see that they are a LOT cheaper than $200 for a pair. However, your accelerated tire wear is NOT caused by negative camber. This is a common misconception. Your camber readings really aren't all that extreme. They are an indication that something is wrong, but that much camber alone will not 'roast your tires'. Your tire wear is caused by a toe problem... which may only exist when the front wheels are steering through a turn. A good alignment tech with advanced equipment (that he/she knows how to use) can pinpoint the source of the problem, but most shops simply set the toe to spec when the wheels are pointed straight ahead, and call it a day. "Toe and go" and get their money... Diagnosing alignment problems requires good equipment, training, and, most of all, giving a ****. Sometimes collision repair shops that do their own alignments are better at finding problems, but not always because many of them just farm it out to the tire shop down the street.

 

the car is 20 years old. knuckles can bend. frame can warp. accident or not.

youre using STOCK springs tho?

and it was the toe that killed your tires. post the toe measurements before and after.