Because of rear tire wear issues I am planning to use an after market "adjustable upper rear camber arms" to reduce the rear camber and increase tire life. The replacement of camber arms in Honda TSB 08-001 has done nothing for our tire life. Our LH rear camber is about -1.0 Deg while the RH rear camber is about -1.5 Deg and it really shows on tire life in that the RH tire is shot in just 8000 miles while the LH is about 50% wear. We are strictly highway drivers and the only corners we take are about 200 miles apart if you get my drift. The 06-08 civics are coming from the factory configured for the "teen" set and not for the gPa and gMa crowd like us! IMHO!!! Any comments?

 

Wow, 1.0-1.5 degrees negative camber isnt that much. Assuming your toe is what it should be and with proper tire rotations you would think you would be fine. I am a toyota tech, we see alot of premature tire wear on the newer camrys but only with one specific tire. (I forget which one) We check the alignments and they are all fine, most of the people even rotate the tires every 5k . I am not familiar with that bulletin you listed, but I wonder if its the tires?

 

whats in the trunk we see that all the time in the TL's their is snow chains and all kinds of things in the truck and all the small stuff add's up fast and will change the camber.

 

Yes, you are bang on and we have been aware of the loading effect WITH THIS CAR. We are Snowbirds so every fall and spring we load our car to its limit and proceed to drive 1800 miles to our winter home in that configuration. BUT this is our third Honda and we never had that trouble doing the same thing in a 90 Accord and a 01 Civic. Thus far the 07 Civic has been totally destroying a RH tire each season, the LH is worn badly (50%) but not totally destroyed. So far this applies to 3 sets of tires, 2 were All Seasons, same brand, and one pair of winter tires. If I could get the RH tire wear reduced to where the LH wear is now it would be acceptable. The alignment has been checked 3 times, twice at a Honda dealer ond once else where.

As far as TSB 08-001 is concerned, the OEM camber arms had the camber at -2 Deg, the replacement arms in TSB 08-001 reduced it to -1.0 Deg BUT on our vehicle the RH camber has been consistently 0.5 Deg more negative then the LH. That is the only clue I have as to suggest why the RH is worse then the LH. If I could adjust that difference out I might get them both to wear like the LH or better.

I am going to get some weight and actually measure the camber at loaded weights to compare with empty just for the sake of knowing the extent it changes.

I do appreciate your response, thank you for pointing out the loading effect.

PS: We have verified the rear springs and shocks are not different from one another.

 

well the only thing i see to correct this is a stiffer set of springs . we see this in the tl and the mdx all the time. common sense to the engineers would be to have a option spring with a heavier load ratting then what on it now.

 

honestly -1.0 and -1.5 is not that much negative camber and should not wear the tires out very much at all.

what is the toe spec?

maybe you should have you alignment guy set the rear toe closer to 0deg.

 

right but setting the toe to zero will not correct the camber all the way.the load will correct the camber.

 

negative camber is not wearing out his tires.... there is something else causing it.

 

From experiments in my garage I can observe two things happening when the rear springs are compressed using 250 pounds of weight.

1. The rear TOE IN increases by about 0.15 Degrees beyond no weight, and
2. The rear camber moves more NEGATIVE by about an additional 1.0 degrees.

So, when I have 250 pounds in the trunk the rear wheels adopt a position of about 0.25 Deg TOE IN(spec 0.05 to 0.25 Deg ) and CAMBER LH about -2.0 Deg and RH about -2.6 Deg (spec -0.5 to -2.5). The RH tire wears MUCH worse then the LH tire.

So it looks like when I am running with a load I am running to the outside limit.

I have two SPC-67470 Rear Adjustable Camber Arms on order to give them a try. It looks to me like it is a change in CAMBER that changes the TOE IN on this suspension, correct me if I am wrong.

 

From experiments in my garage I can observe two things happening when the rear springs are compressed using 250 pounds of weight.

1. The rear TOE IN increases by about 0.15 Degrees beyond no weight, and
2. The rear camber moves more NEGATIVE by about an additional 1.0 degrees.

So, when I have 250 pounds in the trunk the rear wheels adopt a position of about 0.25 Deg TOE IN(spec 0.05 to 0.25 Deg ) and CAMBER LH about -2.0 Deg and RH about -2.6 Deg (spec -0.5 to -2.5). The RH tire wears MUCH worse then the LH tire.

So it looks like when I am running with a load I am running to the outside limit.

I have two SPC-67470 Rear Adjustable Camber Arms on order to give them a try. It looks to me like it is a change in CAMBER that changes the TOE IN on this suspension, correct me if I am wrong.

 

yes when you change camber you change toe.

when i do a wheel alignment camber is always done first if adjustable. then toe.

it you might need to to a wheel alignment to the car loaded up with all the weight in the rear. make you adjustments to spec. then remove all the weight from the rear and check how much (if any) the specs have changed.

 

Here is how I have decided to approach the issue which is basically as you have suggested. I have installed adjustable rear Camber arms and set the NO LOAD Camber to ZERO degrees. I have set the NO LOAD rear TOE IN at appox 0.03 Degrees each side. I find when I load the car with about 250 pounds (distributed evenly in the 4 seating places) plus a full tank of fuel, I have all rear parameters on the low side of spec. The LOADED Rear Camber is about -0.5 Degrees and the LOADED TOE IN is about 0.10 Degrees each. Only time will tell, I will be careful to monitor excess loading.

Note: The 250 pounds here was distributed in the seats AND NOT in the trunk as per the previously mentioned experiment.

 

Bottom line.... Honda decided to put a more aggressive camber into the rear suspension and it resulted in excessive and unwanted tire wear/cupping. Then, after this issue started showing its negative symptoms they came out with a revision to the original upper control arm. These revised control arms do NOT resolve the issue.

I am currently the lead plaintiff in a class action lawsuit against Honda America. I have been in discussion with forensic experts and other professionals regarding this issue and have learned a great deal regarding the in's/out's of corporate greed and dishonesty at Honda Motor Corp.

I fought at great length to get Honda to correct this defect in manufacture with the end result being stuck with a vehicle that eats tires within 15 to 20,000 miles regardless of revised control arms.

Harvard07 has the right approach .... buy aftermarket adjustable upper control arms and set the camber to '0' as well as the toe.

My deposition is December 7 and I will be back here to share more as its made clear to me. I'm so disappointed in Honda! I bought what I believed, and what they advertised to be, was the MOST dependable car in the world.

I had the control arms replaced by Honda. They did NOT fix the problem.