I just installed the Carbotech Panther Plus bads. I am still breaking them in, but just driving around they are MUCH better. Braking is stronger and firmer. They squeel a little bit. I only changed our the fronts since the rears are on back order. The pads will be on the track @ Thunderhill this friday, I'll give more of a review then.

P+ =
Larry = /5

 

Just curious which group is hosting the event @ Thunderhill?

 

SCCA.

Also check this thread if you are interested in running at Thunderhill.
Track day in California. If you are interested, all the forms needed are here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=250649
Please read everything carefully.


[Modified by disordeR, 8:40 PM 8/13/2002]

 

Just curious.....what brake pad you use before the Panther + ?

I'm just looking for some review on this brake pad

 

I went from Axis Metal Masters to P+ (along with fluid and lines) and the difference was phenominal. After going through a set of P+'s (only used on the track) I decided to try the XP's. I was very impressed with them in EFFECT 's S2000. He was definetly outbreaking me. XP's were a noticably amount better on the track. If you're using the for the street stick with P+'s or preferably Axis Ultimates, but for the track XP's are the way to go (P+'s if you autox).



Either way can't go wrong,

 

A lot of ECHC racers have had problems with the XP, from them wearing out to fast, to just having a shitty feel... I recomend the P+ to people with street tires who track.. And Ferodo DS3000 pads from http://www.cobaltfriction.com for track users with R compounds and Racers....

 

Will I have major "stability" problems braking into turns since i am only using the P+'s in front? As I stated.. the rears are coming, but were on back order.

 

loves the XP. The panther plus is an awesome street/track pad as well. If you bed the XP in properly, it should last twice as long as the plus...

 

panther plus

 

Are these P+ pads comparable to the Ferodo DS2500?

I use DS3000 (front only) on the track and stock pads on the streets.

BTW. Ferodo recommends using a "lower grade" pad for the rear. Like DS3000 in the front and DS2000 in the rear.

 

Great post George, thanks! If I track the car once a month and drive about 1k miles a month, how long will the pads last? On the streets, I am almost never hard on my brakes. Does anybody just swap out the P+ pads for stocks on the street and vice cersa for the track?

I will be running stock rears at the track this friday. The rear pads should be coming early next week.



[Modified by disordeR, 8:36 AM 8/14/2002]

 

I just installed Carbotech XPs up front and Ps in the rear. I cant get the XPs to stop squealing. Ive tried glue (anti squeak), shims, lube. DisordeR you said your P+s made some noise? When and how much? Im thinking about switching to something less extreme.

 

I used a set of panther + on the street and once really warmed up they just wouldnt stop squeelling. Especially at low speeds. But the braking ability was unbelievable.

 

[/QUOTE]A lot of ECHC racers have had problems with the XP, from them wearing out to fast, to just having a shitty feel... I recomend the P+ to people with street tires who track.. And Ferodo DS3000 pads from http://www.cobaltfriction.com for track users with R compounds and Racers....[/QUOTE]

couldnt have said it any better. I am going to give these Ferodo's a try per Andy's advice. I will be running Axxis front and rear and Ferodo front and Axxis rear on the track setup.

mike

 

Yes they let me buy the XPs for the street. I told them I could tolerate some noise, which I can. I just never thought it would be ALL the time, and not when Im not even on the brakes. hah

Actually cold stopping power isnt really that bad once they were bedded in. The first 5 miles was like trying to stop on ice, but after bedding them in, they are only slightly worse than OE pads when cold, course who knows what they will be like in the winter.

I wanted basically the most aggressive street pad that doesnt squeak. What fits
that description?

 

I am running Endless CC-X and the are fabulous...
The need basically one stop to get some heat and after that they are incredible.

 

Ok lets get to the bottom of this. What causes the noise from a brake pad? Is it simply the higher coefficient of friction or is it compound etc? Because im looking at these Endless pads and their friction coefficient is much lower (.35-.5) than the Carbotech line (.45-.6) maybe thats why they dont squeak as much.

 

i do...

 

Why such hatred for the Carbotech XP? Hell, I love those pads...

 

Interesting...

I feel that the Carbotech Panther Plus is a good entry-level to intermediate-level track pad, and works well in some vehicles (read: light - under 2400lb) as a race pad on light- to moderate- braking road courses, or as a rear-axle application when modulation is critical. While it is very much on the dusty and noisy side, it can also work reasonably well as a street pad, though this would not be my recommended use for this compound - JMO. (Noise level on the Panther Plus is really dependent on the caliper system...some systems will result in more noise than others.) I personally find the dust level of this compound, as well as the heat requirements (seasonal, really) to be unacceptable for safe use as a street compound, but we all have different opinions of what defines "streetable", to be sure.

Regarding the Panther XP, I have seen results ranging from excellent/very good to downright poor/dangerous. As with any niche market product were the end-user/customer is looking for similar/same results (i.e. regarding race brake pads --> strong stopping power and high fade resistance), for the same product to receive such widely varying reviews/results, I'm tending to have raised eyebrows. Rather than embrace the product wholeheartedly based on a few good results, or on the other hand completely disregard the product based on an equal number of poor results, I think it may be best to just wait and see...time will tell. Perhaps the Panther XP requires some more R&D...perhaps it is a quality control issue...I have no idea, and don't wish to speculate. For those who are happy with this product, certainly continue using it until your curiosity leads you to try other products. For those who are displeased with its performance, be rest assured that there are several other alternative products which have been thoroughly tested and race-proven for your application.

Jason -- I think some people are just voicing their displeasure with the Panther XP based on their personal experiences with the product. Clearly, the results you have achieved with the Panther XP are drastically different from some of those being shared here. I don't think there is any kind of "hatred", per se, regarding this product...just cases of dissatisfaction.

JMO... -Andie


[Modified by cobalt, 5:33 AM 8/20/2002]

 

Muckman:

Based on my experience, the most aggressive street pad that does not squeal is the Axxis Ultimate. A bit more aggressive is the Ferodo DS2500 (may require anti-squeal compound to stay true-to-form as a "noiseless" pad).

Keep in mind that the limits to your ability to brake on the street will be determined, ultimately, by your tires, and not your brake pads. A brake pad that requires minimal heat, performs equally well when wet or dry, and has predictable, consistent performance over a wide range of environmental conditions, is your best bet for a street pad. A pad like the Panther Plus (and especially the XP) is best left for the track, as the heat requirements (and the noise, as you mentioned) are too high for many street conditions. During dry weather with an ambient temperature above 65F, I have found the P+ to be quite good for street use (noise and dust aside). In the wet, however, and at temperatures under 60F, emergency braking can be very unpredictable. I speak from direct product testing of the Panther Plus over the course of 2 years/35,000+ miles - both track and street miles -- in Michigan, New York, Washington D.C., and Florida (and many places in between, hehe).

HTH... -Andie


[Modified by cobalt, 5:47 AM 8/20/2002]

 

Well, there it is right there. Corey doesn't like them because he drives a tank!

Believe me, I'll definitely keep a lookout for any problems now. I really had no idea.

 

Disorder:

No, you will not have "major" brake-bias issues with the OEM pads in the rear, though your brake bias will be moved to the front - this will be noticeable, but not dangerous under all but the most aggressive of braking manouveres.

You can also use a compound such as the Axxis Ultimate in the rear - Scott Seck does this on his Integra race car, with the Panther XP in the front.

-Andie

 

Thanks for the great posts Andie. I think i'll swap out my P+'s for my stockers come winter time. I only have a couple more track events.

EDIT- had a conversation with Andie. Awesome. He knows his stuff backwards and fowards. Thanks for the help man. I really appreciate it.


[Modified by disordeR, 3:50 AM 8/20/2002]

 

andie is tha man