Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

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Old Mar 10, 2009 | 08:43 PM
  #1  
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Icon6 Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Trying to get this CRX to pass smog; Setup is simple :

Location: Southern California
Body: 1991 CRX Si
Engine: JDM B16A 92-93 Integra XSi
- DC Sports Headers (CARB Exempt; Tagged)
- AEM Cold Air Intake (CARB Exempt; Tagged)
- AEM Fuel Rail
- AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator (Stock PSI (80psi))
- New Catalytic Converter ( Magnaflow UNIVERSAL-FIT CATALYTIC CONVERTER )
- New O2 Sensor ( Denso Oxygen Sensor )
- New Exhaust ( ES Tuning Systems Oval Universal Muffler )

Tried to get the above setup smogged this past weekend and failed horribly on the "NO (PPM)"
I use 91 octane fuel (Chevron)

Test Results:

Code:
		| %CO2	| %O2	|	HC (PPM)	|	CO%		|	NO (PPM)	|
Test 	 | RPM	| MEAS	| MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| Results
15 MPH  | 2111	| 13.50 | 1.46	| 134	308	127	| 0.82	2.32	0.03	| 847	2070	3704	| G POL
25 MPH  | 2452	| 13.30 | 1.51	| 108	258	66	| 0.71	2.21	0.00	| 786	1870	3330	| G POL
Current To-Do List:
  • Check and Verify timing
  • Install new Honda OEM Fuel Injectors (on-order)

Anything else to add, check, replace, etc?

Thanks!
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Old Mar 10, 2009 | 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

maybe you should change your flux capacitor??
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Old Mar 10, 2009 | 08:48 PM
  #3  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

i miss my crx, i realize now how much i would use this site back in the day.... when you wanna install?? lets do it this weekend, i gotta do **** to my car too
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Old Mar 14, 2009 | 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

shameless bump... Anyone?
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Old Mar 14, 2009 | 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

did you try to use GARUNTEE PASS EMISSION BOTTLE. its p2p. just go to a auto parts they probably have it. i dont know the exact name but the two names i gave u will be 2 good hints.
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Old Mar 14, 2009 | 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by ddp90X
did you try to use GARUNTEE PASS EMISSION BOTTLE. its p2p. just go to a auto parts they probably have it. i dont know the exact name but the two names i gave u will be 2 good hints.
I will give it a shot.
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Old Mar 14, 2009 | 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

haha looked like my readout, gotta love cali swaps.
guarantee to pass barely got me to pass. its good stuff.
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Old Mar 14, 2009 | 09:31 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Harder to diagnose are elevated oxides of nitrogen (NOX) emissions. as your readings are HIGH for sure...over-advanced ignition timing maybe.. NOX readings will rise sharply during acceleration and will peak a few seconds after the cruising speed is reached. If the EGR system fails to recirculate exhaust back into the intake manifold, combustion temperatures will rise causing an increase in NOX. The higher temperatures may also cause some detonation (spark knock) to occur, which may be audible when the engine is under load. Causes of elevated NOX emissions during acceleration include:

Defective EGR valve;

Leaky EGR valve plumbing or control solenoid;

Carbon deposits in EGR manifold passageways;

Carbon buildup on pistons and in combustion chamber;

Over-advanced ignition timing;

Defective knock sensor;

Engine overheating (check thermostat, fan, coolant level);

Exhaust restrictions.

Some of these may not apply, but I thought I would just be thorough..
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Old Mar 14, 2009 | 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

its been a while, but from what I remember the jdm b16a1 is supposed to have pretty high NOX out of the gate no?
based on the above posters list, the only issue I had that I did not try to resolve was carbon buildup on the pistons and in combustion chamber. Was gonna try seafoam but went with the less invasive guarantee to pass instead.
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Old Mar 14, 2009 | 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by DazeMS
Harder to diagnose are elevated oxides of nitrogen (NOX) emissions. as your readings are HIGH for sure...over-advanced ignition timing maybe.. NOX readings will rise sharply during acceleration and will peak a few seconds after the cruising speed is reached. If the EGR system fails to recirculate exhaust back into the intake manifold, combustion temperatures will rise causing an increase in NOX. The higher temperatures may also cause some detonation (spark knock) to occur, which may be audible when the engine is under load. Causes of elevated NOX emissions during acceleration include:

Defective EGR valve;

Leaky EGR valve plumbing or control solenoid;

Carbon deposits in EGR manifold passageways;

Carbon buildup on pistons and in combustion chamber;

Over-advanced ignition timing;

Defective knock sensor;

Engine overheating (check thermostat, fan, coolant level);

Exhaust restrictions.

Some of these may not apply, but I thought I would just be thorough..
plagiarism at its best.. you got that directly from this website http://www.aa1car.com/library/2000/ic60032.htm about half way down the page 'I thought I would just be thorough'.. come on.. not to knock on you, but at least give credit to where credit is due..

OP: as for your NOX problem.. it seems that many people get better results after changing their CAT so maybe you could try that in combination with some of the other suggestions mentioned

good luck!
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Old Mar 15, 2009 | 08:04 AM
  #11  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

b16 + smog good luck.
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 11:49 AM
  #12  
fluxuator's Avatar
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Well after many things going wrong:

Stripped threads on the oil pan. End Result: Replacing the oil pan

Exhaust header stud breaking on the head. End Result: Purchased Craftsman 10 Pc. Screw Extractor, drilled out stud and used extractor to get it out, replaced with new stud; like new.

Breaking a stud on the fuel rail. End Result: removed with vice grips and replaced with a bolt instead.

Also yes I used a torque wrench... I own a Snap-On Torque wrench and a Craftsman Torque; so no speak of "use a torque wrench" or "dont go crazy on the bolts", etc, al

Replaced the Fuel Injectors and used the "Guarantee to Pass"; but I didnt.. lol... see results below:

Code:
		| %CO2	| %O2	|	HC (PPM)	|	CO%		|	NO (PPM)	|
Test 	 | RPM	| MEAS	| MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| Results
15 MPH  | 2258	| 13.32 | 1.65	| 134	308	70	| 0.82	2.32	0.01	| 847	2070	3307	| G POL
25 MPH  | 2484	| 13.10 | 1.95	| 108	258	47	| 0.71	2.21	0.01	| 786	1870	2949	| G POL
Underline - Values went down from Previous test
Italic - Values went up from Previous test

Previous Results:
Code:
		| %CO2	| %O2	|	HC (PPM)	|	CO%		|	NO (PPM)	|
Test 	 | RPM	| MEAS	| MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| Results
15 MPH  | 2111	| 13.50 | 1.46	| 134	308	127	| 0.82	2.32	0.03	| 847	2070	3704	| G POL
25 MPH  | 2452	| 13.30 | 1.51	| 108	258	66	| 0.71	2.21	0.00	| 786	1870	3330	| G POL
Anything else I could possibly try?
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 12:25 PM
  #13  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by fluxuator
Well after many things going wrong:

Stripped threads on the oil pan. End Result: Replacing the oil pan

Exhaust header stud breaking on the head. End Result: Purchased Craftsman 10 Pc. Screw Extractor, drilled out stud and used extractor to get it out, replaced with new stud; like new.

Breaking a stud on the fuel rail. End Result: removed with vice grips and replaced with a bolt instead.

Also yes I used a torque wrench... I own a Snap-On Torque wrench and a Craftsman Torque; so no speak of "use a torque wrench" or "dont go crazy on the bolts", etc, al

Replaced the Fuel Injectors and used the "Guarantee to Pass"; but I didnt.. lol... see results below:

Code:
		| %CO2	| %O2	|	HC (PPM)	|	CO%		|	NO (PPM)	|
Test 	 | RPM	| MEAS	| MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| Results
15 MPH  | 2258	| 13.32 | 1.65	| 134	308	70	| 0.82	2.32	0.01	| 847	2070	3307	| G POL
25 MPH  | 2484	| 13.10 | 1.95	| 108	258	47	| 0.71	2.21	0.01	| 786	1870	2949	| G POL
Underline - Values went down from Previous test
Italic - Values went up from Previous test

Previous Results:
Code:
		| %CO2	| %O2	|	HC (PPM)	|	CO%		|	NO (PPM)	|
Test 	 | RPM	| MEAS	| MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| MAX	GP	MEAS	| Results
15 MPH  | 2111	| 13.50 | 1.46	| 134	308	127	| 0.82	2.32	0.03	| 847	2070	3704	| G POL
25 MPH  | 2452	| 13.30 | 1.51	| 108	258	66	| 0.71	2.21	0.00	| 786	1870	3330	| G POL
Anything else I could possibly try?
The thing I notice is your O2% is high. Which usually means either you have an exhaust leak or the cat is not using the O2 to tear down the elements. I would concentrate on this. If you have a leak the cat will not get hot enough for it to work correctly, or more importantly if the leak is before the O2 sensor it will not provide the ECU with the correct information and messing with your air/fuel ratio's.

Any exhaust leak after the cat you shouldn't need to worry about unless it is a huge hole and causing an sample diulution---sorry bout the spelling!
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 12:50 PM
  #14  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by thesmogman
The thing I notice is your O2% is high. Which usually means either you have an exhaust leak or the cat is not using the O2 to tear down the elements. I would concentrate on this. If you have a leak the cat will not get hot enough for it to work correctly, or more importantly if the leak is before the O2 sensor it will not provide the ECU with the correct information and messing with your air/fuel ratio's.

Any exhaust leak after the cat you shouldn't need to worry about unless it is a huge hole and causing an sample diulution---sorry bout the spelling!
Could I have a leak where the CAT meets the end of the Header downpipe? I highly doubt there is a leak where the headers meet the the block... I just replaced the gasket on that and all bolts are torqued to spec.
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 01:03 PM
  #15  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by fluxuator
Could I have a leak where the CAT meets the end of the Header downpipe? I highly doubt there is a leak where the headers meet the the block... I just replaced the gasket on that and all bolts are torqued to spec.
Yes, of course you could. This could be the problem. It could also be a crack in the header too.

Any exhaust leak before the cat is bad news.
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by thesmogman
Yes, of course you could. This could be the problem. It could also be a crack in the header too.

Any exhaust leak before the cat is bad news.
It's a brand new header... DC Sports Header
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 01:11 PM
  #17  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by fluxuator
It's a brand new header... DC Sports Header
Did you replace the donut gasket when you put it on?

Are you using the stock connection with the springs? You might need to add a washer or two to tighten up the springs. You add them on top of the springs and put the bolt thru.
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Originally Posted by thesmogman
Did you replace the donut gasket when you put it on?

Are you using the stock connection with the springs? You might need to add a washer or two to tighten up the springs. You add them on top of the springs and put the bolt thru.
Hmmmmmm ... This might be where I went wrong... Yes stock connection with springs, but I'm sure that gasket is shot... Funny the small things you can forget about
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

Try running 86 or 87 octane and set the timing accordingly. It works with te Mustangs.
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

get a newer stock honda cat and make sure its real hot before the test. really beat on it to get the temps up. dont let it cool off or sit before the test. get it hot and drive it right in. those hi flow cats dont work that well for emissions
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Old Apr 8, 2009 | 10:45 AM
  #21  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

good luck, keep us posted with your attempts because im trying to bar my b16 rex in the future!
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Old Apr 8, 2009 | 12:18 PM
  #22  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

X2 on the cat. went through all this horseshit when i did mine.

Almost the same mods exactly......its your cat, heat that bitch up.
I tested 17 times before it passed, and its a fresh build.
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Old Apr 8, 2009 | 03:35 PM
  #23  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

i managed to pass smog by using a wideband O2 and SAFC2 to tune everything to stoic for the test... no cat at all, almost a barely pass.
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Old Apr 11, 2009 | 02:29 PM
  #24  
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Default Re: Smog Test CRX Si w/B16 Fails

/thread

So I indeed had an exhaust leak downpipe where the header meets the CAT; turns out the old gasket had cracked in 4 different places... It was a ceramic gasket so my guess is the heat and the fact that it didnt seal completely caused a weak point, thus, the cracking.

I ended up ordering "1993-1997 Honda Civic del Sol Bosal Exhaust Gasket" Price: $17.09 Part #: BO256303

Since this gasket was probably the proper gasket to be using; the prior gap i had was too big and it was a pain in the *** to get the springs clamped down with vice-grips so i could tighten the bolts. With the new gasket in place I took it for a test drive and could tell the difference immediately.

Unfortunately I believe the smog still failed... I took it to a shop where I had full knowledge that the "magic touch" would be given to get it to pass if it would not do so on its own... I opted for the later...

...And thats that...
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