ST rear bolt on sway tear out?
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From: CIVIC typeR is a HOT model most, USA
ST rear bolt on sway tear out?
i am about to purchase a set of suspension techniques sway bars. got a 95 civic that came without factory sway bars. i am not talking about swapping out my rear LCA, but the one that just bolts on without any modifications. i have heard from a few people that this is a poor design and that it will rip my sub frame out. any comments? by the way i am running a gsr bar in the front. should i put the ST front sway bar on the front as well or leave it? thanks 
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: North/West, IL
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (cxSOHChatch)
You may be confusing the ST bar with the ITR bar in reguards to subframe tear-out.
ITR bars mounted away from the subframe are more prone to tear-out than ITR bars mounted closer to the subframe.
ST bars were designed to function with their mounting method. I have yet to hear od a subframe tear-out with ST bars.
ITR bars mounted away from the subframe are more prone to tear-out than ITR bars mounted closer to the subframe.
ST bars were designed to function with their mounting method. I have yet to hear od a subframe tear-out with ST bars.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Crsytal Lake, IL, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (cxSOHChatch)
I put a ST rear swaybar on my 94 ex a few months ago, it recently started making a creeking sound in the rear frame (like the sound when you jack up one corner of your car) any ideas about this?
I also run a rear upper strut bar and stock springs and shocks.
I also run a rear upper strut bar and stock springs and shocks.
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (SLPR)
You may be confusing the ST bar with the ITR bar in reguards to subframe tear-out.
ITR bars mounted away from the subframe are more prone to tear-out than ITR bars mounted closer to the subframe.
ST bars were designed to function with their mounting method. I have yet to hear od a subframe tear-out with ST bars.
ITR bars mounted away from the subframe are more prone to tear-out than ITR bars mounted closer to the subframe.
ST bars were designed to function with their mounting method. I have yet to hear od a subframe tear-out with ST bars.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Crsytal Lake, IL, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (Tweakmeister)
tweakmeister- I will give that a try, but it doesn't make a creek noise if I push the rear of the car up and down. I used some kind of clear grease I had laying around when I got the kit, there wan't any included when I bought it. Thanks!
This rear subframe tear out... What would be warning signes if this was going to happen?
This rear subframe tear out... What would be warning signes if this was going to happen?
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Las Cruces, NM, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (oioioi)
the problem is not in the swaybar, but more the car itself. think of all the vehicles that use these bars, auto-x and road racing. and then compare to the isolated incidents of subframe tear-out. i'd say improper installation or a weak chassis is the cause, not the bar itself. i would say don't worry about subframe tear-out.
as for grease, use some moly grease (wheel bearing grease, black nasty stuff!). i've put it on once and have no noise at all. just slop a crapload in there.
as for grease, use some moly grease (wheel bearing grease, black nasty stuff!). i've put it on once and have no noise at all. just slop a crapload in there.
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From: 5.56, MD
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (OvERaCiD)
Quote from BSQ (https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=248163):
The cause of subframe tearout is when the larger
swaybar is mounted AWAY from the subframe. When the
swaybar is mounted in this fashion, the swaybar is
able to exert torque on the subframe and this stresses
(ie. flexing back and forth) the mounting points and
eventually causes the mounting points to pull away
from the subframe.
As with anything, an increased amount of leverage
makes it easier to do work. This is governed by the
lever law: force x distance = torque. As distance--or
the length of the lever--increases, the resulting
amount of torque also increases. (This is why it was
easier to move your big brother on the teeter-totter
when he moved towards the middle and you stayed out on
the end. You enjoyed increased leverage at the end,
while he suffered from reduced leverage near the
middle.)
The proper way to mount a large swaybar is to mount it
DIRECTLY to the subframe (eg. Integra Type-R). This
prevents the torque and stress on the subframe.
swaybar is mounted AWAY from the subframe. When the
swaybar is mounted in this fashion, the swaybar is
able to exert torque on the subframe and this stresses
(ie. flexing back and forth) the mounting points and
eventually causes the mounting points to pull away
from the subframe.
As with anything, an increased amount of leverage
makes it easier to do work. This is governed by the
lever law: force x distance = torque. As distance--or
the length of the lever--increases, the resulting
amount of torque also increases. (This is why it was
easier to move your big brother on the teeter-totter
when he moved towards the middle and you stayed out on
the end. You enjoyed increased leverage at the end,
while he suffered from reduced leverage near the
middle.)
The proper way to mount a large swaybar is to mount it
DIRECTLY to the subframe (eg. Integra Type-R). This
prevents the torque and stress on the subframe.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: All Motor, CA, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (ALF)
ST totally tore my rear subframe out. I have a 97 hatch with no rear bar from the factory. Also when the bar tore my subframe I called to tell ST about it and the guy said....."Uhhhhh, duhhhhh.....sorry bro those are for offroad use only..click! and hung up 
So I guess they are good if you plan on going off-roading Anyone who hangs up on there customers deserves to die, $1100 later I got it fixed no thanks to ST
So I guess they are good if you plan on going off-roading Anyone who hangs up on there customers deserves to die, $1100 later I got it fixed no thanks to ST
Thread Starter
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From: CIVIC typeR is a HOT model most, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (Halo)
hey halo
just curious but what kind of springs were you running? i hear that st sways tear out when you run stock springs...let me know, thanks
just curious but what kind of springs were you running? i hear that st sways tear out when you run stock springs...let me know, thanks
Joined: May 2002
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From: Burlington, NJ, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (LTB420)
I have ST sways for 2 years & never had a problem. Make sure that you'll use some BEEFY WASHERS from the inside of the subframe. I autoXed my car plenty of times & it's fine.
Yuri K
Yuri K
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Portage, MI, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (Civic1992DX)
i have the ST front/rear kit on my car. i used washers on the rear both inside and outside of the subframe. 4months, 3 autoXs and lots of hard driving, and not one problem. 
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: san diego, ca, usa
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (DOHC-DX)
would it be cheaper to buy the st sway bars or do the hole lca and itr bar setup? also if i was to go with the st setup what rear lower tie bar will fit and will that make the chassis too stiff and have higher chances of tear out?
New User
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: LA, CA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (speshuled619)
Only tearout prob I've heard of was with the Skunk (skunk? skunkworks? skunk2? I can't keep track of all these damn skunks...) rear bar that inspyral had way back when...
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Portage, MI, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (speshuled619)
well, i priced it out, and because i didn't have front or rear bars, it was much cheaper to go with the ST matched set.
i don't think a typical rear lower tie bar will fit with any rear swaybar. the only one i know of is the comptech one cause they're integrated. IMO, tiebars are a waste.
i don't think a typical rear lower tie bar will fit with any rear swaybar. the only one i know of is the comptech one cause they're integrated. IMO, tiebars are a waste.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
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From: CIVIC typeR is a HOT model most, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (Civic1992DX)
I have ST sways for 2 years & never had a problem. Make sure that you'll use some BEEFY WASHERS from the inside of the subframe. I autoXed my car plenty of times & it's fine.
Yuri K
Yuri K
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Portage, MI, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (cxSOHChatch)
i don't think that you'll need anything more thick (height wise) than normal. more important is the width of it. remember, you want to spread the stress out over a bigger area, so the widest one that still fits is best.
you can probably fab up something like the beaks kit (http://www.beaksproducts.com/srk-eg.html) for the ST kit. honestly, i don't think you'll need it for anything 19mm or less (ST kit is 19mm in the rear).
[Modified by DOHC-DX, 8:05 PM 8/19/2002]
you can probably fab up something like the beaks kit (http://www.beaksproducts.com/srk-eg.html) for the ST kit. honestly, i don't think you'll need it for anything 19mm or less (ST kit is 19mm in the rear).
[Modified by DOHC-DX, 8:05 PM 8/19/2002]
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,140
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From: IL, USA
Re: ST rear bolt on sway tear out? (DOHC-DX)
So far mine is a-ok, I have the 19mm rear bar on a 00 Civic coupe, also matched with APEXi WS coilovers. Seems to be holding up alright without any special beaks kit, washers or other measures. Its been on for almost 2 years now.
[Modified by piscorpio, 4:41 PM 8/19/2002]
[Modified by piscorpio, 4:41 PM 8/19/2002]
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