I am kinda scared of the work involved in doing the gsr brake swap even though its about 100$ cheaper then the 11' fastbrakes.com kit.So is the fast brakes kit a take off old calipers an rotors an replace with new ones or is it more invovled like the gsr kit? Also whats the comparison to the 11" kit to a gsr brake upgrade?Thank you as I am purchasing either or in a week or less.


[Modified by drunken jdm monkey, 3:36 AM 8/6/2002]

 

I don't have s specific answer but do have this comment. Unless you are running super sticky race tires or are running a road course you aren't going to see a difference. I can lock up my 205/50-15 tires (all 4) guite easily with my stock DX brakes with the rear drums. The brake system you described, either one will be more resistant to brake fade than mine is, but for that matter on the street I have yet to experience brake fade. You'll need killer tires, really great ones to even hope to take advantage of the brake upgrade. No trying to talk you out of it, just want to point out a fact many seem to forget. Huge brakes do not help without a coresponding huge increase in traction to be able to stop the car. Being able to lock the tires up even easier does nothing to help you stop faster. And locking up the tires is unsafe not to mention hugely increases your stopping distance. The greated BRAKING is right at the point BEFORE your tires lose traction. The greatest BREAKING occurs shortly after the point your tires lose traction.


[Modified by virginia_dude, 7:45 AM 8/6/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 7:46 AM 8/6/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 7:46 AM 8/6/2002]

 

well right now I have no brakes at all an quite honestly its scary to drive my car when its runs 13sec quater mile but takes a mile to stop lol.Right now I have jdm falken tires on my car so traction is of no problem.I have 300 to spend on brakes an its a decision between the gsr brakes the an fast brakes kit an being that I am mechanicly incline I will have somone I know put it on,so I would also like to know which is easier to install an can be done as quick as pad an rotor change?

 

Neither of these are as quick as a pad and rotor change, they both require the steering nuckle (verticle link) to be changed. And that entails a alignment afterwards. If you have a Si or a DX the concensus is Brembo blanks and Hawk pads will give an awesum package with minumum work. If you have a STD or HF you really do need to change the knuckles hubs, calipers and rotors. But doing a 13 second quarter I am quite sure you don't have one of those in it now since they both have spindly little hubs. Anyone out here done this swap to back up what I said is required?

 

ya I have a dx an would like to buy not only the one that works the best but the one that will be the least labor consumnig.I dont plan on buyin some measley stock sized rotors its either the gsr upgrade or the 11" upgrade.So it comes down to which is quickest to do an have best results.

 

I have the fastbrakes kit sitting at my house. I thought it was supposed to be completely bolt on? Maybe I'll get around to installing it one day.

 

hey what did the kit come with?

 

Having installed the Fastbrakes 11" kit on 2 Civics now, I can tell you that other than a bit of grinding of the bolts in the kit, it is a COMPLETE bolt on process. The kit is very well designed (other than the previously mentioned bolt clearance problem).

What was mentioned about not needing better brakes for the street is, in my opinion, false. I drove my EK hatch rather hard on the street, and on more than a few occasions, experienced "pad knock back" which led to NO brakes on initial activation of the pedal. Pad knock back can be caused by flexing in the knuckle, which leads to the caliper retracting sufficiently that the pads moves away from the rotor. I also managed to fade the brakes more than once. Granted, the EK is a much heavier car than the EFs, and has the same size brakes, but I'm sure there are some of you that drive hard enough on the street to induce fade. What about if you had to make a panic stop at highway speed? Then you almost immediatly had to make another one (it happens)? Chances are the second time, your braking distance would grow substantially.

I have nothing but praise for the performance of my Fastbrakes kit. I also had the 11.4" rotor setup in the rear. Some fear that the balance can be upset but this mismatch of rotor sizes (11.2" in the front, 11.4" in the rear), but on my car, I felt the balance was excellent.

Another concern is with the need for a larger master cylinder when doing discs in the rear, and larger calipers in the front (Integra). I used stainless brake lines with my setup, and my pedal modulation, travel, and overall feel improved considerably, even though I stayed with the EK CX master cylinder and proportioning valve.

The front kit comes with caliper relocation brackets, all hardware, 11.2" rotors and rotor centering rings.

 

ok wow x's 1million jaker thats an awsome write up.I am sold on the fast brakes kit now.Ya my EF weighs in at about 1500lbs without driver an I am very harsh on my brakes.Sounds like this is the kit for me.

 

Well he is going to have to learn to be real delicate with the foot, even with Aziens he's going to have wheel lockup real easy with that setup. And that can be real dangerous. And not everyone has the skill and restraint to keep his foot out of it in a panic situation. To avoid a lock up. And its going to make rain driving interesting. Will ahve to be real delicate with that right foot to avoid pitching the car off the road in a panic stop. No brake can stop you faster than the availible traction will allow. Brake fade is the only thing the monster brakes have as an advantage over Brembo blanks and Hawk pads. Plus they require the big wheels to fit on the car, so much for the cheap steel ones to run in the winter. And Aziens are not all-season rated.
Oh and I thought the FastBrakes kit required EX knuckles not DX ones. But then I could be wrong.
[Modified by virginia_dude, 3:16 PM 8/6/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 3:23 PM 8/6/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 3:24 PM 8/6/2002]

 

The FastBrakes kit that we are discussing is made for any Civic 84-up that has 9.5" rotors stock. This setup will fit under 15" steelies, which by the way are pretty cheap these days from the dealers. Seems that the 2002 Civic Veloz (special edition) is shipped to the dealership with the steelies on the car, and the mag wheels in the trunk, and the dealership has to mount the tires on the mags as part of the dealer prep.

Modulation is not that delicate a proposition. It could become an issue in a panic situation, but unless you're running on bald tires in the rain or snow, its not an issue at all, based on my experience.

 

Heres another comment the EF hondas have a different pattern than the 2002 does. 4X114mm pattern wheels are not going to fit a EF. that has I forget 4X100 or 4X110. Honda changed its 4 lug pattern in the early 90's to the best of my knowledge. Not knocking the quality of the Kit but I had looked into it a while back and I remember there was other things needed like EX knucles. and that it didn't fit under ALL 15 inch rims. Some fit some didn't. Would suck after you install it and find out you nearly new rims and tires wouldn't work. And Modulation would be a big issue in the rain with a system that has a high capacity to lock up the wheels such as this. I agree on DRY pavement it is less of an issue but in the rain or in a panic situation I say it is. Now that is assuming his driving skills are not above average. A very skilled driver is more capible of avoiding lockup in a touchy situation than the average driver is, and way too many people think they are better drivers than they really are. Not knocking anyone or their skills, just pointing out a general fact. And that applies when driving at the edge on dry pavement OR in the rain or snow. Modulation is much harder with the increaced brake capacity. Staightline is much less of an issue than it is in the tight and twisty road courses. Now as I understand He is drag racing and in that situation the Modulation issues would not be as important as say if he was running Autocross. Or driving where it rains a lot. But anything that makes it easier to achieve lockup WILL make modulation more of an issue. Fade becomes less of an issue but with a finite amount of traction modulation will as I know Stock DX brakes have the capacity to lock up with Aziens quite easily. And anything that increases capacity makes that even easier, and Lockup is the one thing you don't want when you need to stop in a hurry. Its always a trade-off. Increaseing one thing always affects other things, some good some bad.

[Modified by virginia_dude, 7:40 AM 8/7/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 7:45 AM 8/7/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 8:06 AM 8/7/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 8:19 AM 8/7/2002]

 

Every civic (from at least 88+) and integra (sans the type r) up to 2001 had 4x100. 4x114 was used on accords and preludes in the early 90s on. I'm not sure about the 2k2 civic.

 

OK, then I was mistaken, I was sure I heard on this board there was a difference in the Civics pattern (4 lug) also from the early 90's. Well since I have only dealt with a '89 honda not the newer ones you can see how I could be mistaken. If that is the case then Cheap steel wheels in a 15" would be availible. but I still do remember quite clearly that there was clearance issues with some 15" rims with that setup. Since I had just aquired my GSR Rims and tires for a great price I was not about to do something that would have me searching for new wheels at a much higher price if they didn't clear. I'm going to go look again at that site. I do remember DX knucles not working unless they developed new adapters in the last 6 months. THere is a big difference between the DX and the EX knuckles. and every big brake swap I have seen a write up on needs the EX knuckle.

 

FastBrakes does sell a kit that bolts on to any Civic from 1984 to 2000 that came equipped from the factory with 9.5" rotors. This would include a 1984 Honda Civic Hatchback, a 1991 Honda CRX DX, a 2000 Honda Civic HX, a 1992 Honda Civic VX, etc... and so on, and so on...

 

For street use and the occasional drag racing, I would stick with Brembo rotors
and good brake pads. Tha'ts what I have.
Replace the brake master cylinder with one from a 89 Accord LXi.
Fastbrakes is very good for road racing, but for the street, an upgraded
(better quality) stock type brake system will do just fine.

I mean, once you lock the wheels, does it matter if you have 11" rotors
or the stock ones?
I lock my front wheels very easily. The advantage of 11" rotors is better leverage
(the calipers need to apply less force to achieve the same braking force)
and better heat dissipation (since they are bigger with more sur face for heat to escape). Those features are very useful on road racing where you use the brakes constantly and to slow down from high speeds.
That's not the case on street driving.

 

Fastbrakes Install Instructions

and don't listen to the people who say you need a brake upgrade. There's hundreds of ITA CRXs with stock Si brakes who can outbrake virtually every car.

Get stickier tyres, get better pads, stronger lines, higher boiling point fluid and be happy. You don't need GSR brakes, you don't need Fastbrakes...

I haven't updated the summary/evaluation of the brakes, but... they squeal like crazy with the ebc reds. I mean... horribly. But, it's a race car... that noise says i can outbrake 95% of the driving public
Fade is virtually non-existant... very impressive. But, i can't compare it to a normal Si brake setup as I didn't have a very good Si brake setup to begin with.

My biggest problem with the Fastbrake kit:

the centre hub centric ring


[Modified by Driven, 1:50 PM 8/7/2002]

 

ok. i gotta add in a couple cents.

i installed the fastbrakes 11" front kit on my '91 crx si and all i can say is this. IT ROCKS. PERIOD. previous to the fastbrakes kit i was running stock 9.5" drilled rotors w/stock calipers and axxis metalmaster pads. the fastbrakes kit made that setup look like a joke. and i was running stock pads with the fastbrakes. cheap ones at that.

my crx was gutted but still the heaviest crx....'91 si..and the brakes were so good all i had to do was tap the pedal and it would cause the passengar to go flying into the windshield. hehe. it was that good. it actually saved my *** a couple times. btw thats the only brake upgrade i made. i kept the stock si master cylinder, used cheap brake fluid, etc.

fastbrakes =

btw i got the front 11" rotor kit used from my friend's del sol. i took the kit off his del sol and put it right on my crx in about 30m for both sides. so it fits. yea and my brake pads NEVER squeeled once with the fastbrakes. course then again i lube the hell out of the pads before i put them on.



[Modified by dlric, 5:12 PM 8/7/2002]

 

well after all this I came up on gsr complete front brake assembly including the prop valve an master cylinder for 200$ anyone wanna tell me now how diffucult it is to put all this gsr crap onto a dx?

 

Actually dlric the 1990 CRX Si was the heaviest CRX...which is what I had..until it was stolen..
1990 CRX Si - 2174 lbs
1991 CRX Si - 2167 lbs
Later On!
-Impolex

 

Well I am not to big to admit when I am wrong. I went back and checked the website, and yes in fact they do now sell one that doesn't need the EX knuckles. I know about a year ago that wasn't the case. And that was the last time I checked. Because I did consider it then and didn't go for it due to extra items required then. But I think it will cause more problem for the skill level of the average driver than it solves due to it being so easy to lock up the tires, even with great tires. On the street in the rain that is a major point to consider since a car with locked brakes is a car out of control.

 

I bought the setup for my 98 CX EK, using the stock knuckles from Brian in 2000.