so i have had a s300 laying around forever and decided to put it in my car after doing some reading and studying alot about tuning.

im using the hondata h22 map that they pretty much dropped the ball on.

after 2 hours of driving around using autotune to get me close to my target afr's and then haha what i call fine tuning( as im new to this and still suck) ive come up with my partial throttle tune sucks at this point.

but i think i have my WOT some what close to what i want it.

my WOT from 4 to 6k is in mid to low 13:1 afrs and after 6k is in mid to high 12:1 afr's. (i know that isnt perfect but until im completely comfortable with this i would rather be a little rich)

now does anyone have some hint and tips on partial throttle tuning, vtec engagement point( i turned vtec off to tune low cam fuel table, and then set it to 3000rpms to tune hi cam fuel table), i havent touched my ignition tables yet cause i would rather mess with that on a dyno.

can i load my map on here? or would i have to pm it to someone that was willing to look at it?

im still in the process of learning everything but i think im on the right track so far.

thanks for the help and sorry bout the long *** post

 

send me your calibration and i will look at it when i get off work

blakesvtec@yahoo.com

I'll be able to give you some advice after seeing what your map looks like.


what is the setup?
injectors?
fuel pressure?

Jumping in and doing it is the best way to learn so long as you have the basics down!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">send me your calibration and i will look at it when i get off work

blakesvtec@yahoo.com

I'll be able to give you some advice after seeing what your map looks like.


what is the setup?
injectors?
fuel pressure?

Jumping in and doing it is the best way to learn so long as you have the basics down!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

k i will send it and a datalog. the datalog isnt much just shows you rpm to afr.

my setup is a h22a cold air intake, lovefab custom header, and 2.5inch exhaust. nothing much but as i said i would rather learn off of this then a boosted setup or something.

injectors are stock obd1 which im pretty sure is 345cc, and fuel pressure at wot is 43 or 44 psi off the fuel filter.

haha im gonna warn you the map is choppy and idle is perfect and WOT is decent for now but partial throttle is f'ed, and ignition tables haven't been touched whatsoever

ninja edit: after looking back over the map my whole low cam fuel table is f'ed, i like where my high cam fuel table is soooo i think im gonna copy the stock prelude low cam map back on there and work it over again.

haha when you open the map dont laugh to hard


Modified by sohctodohc at 2:25 PM 10/8/2008

 

You should have seen my first map I did about 4 years ago. That was ugly! I will always respect someone trying to learn on their own. I'll take a look at it when I get home later tonight. H22s are my bread and butter :-)

 

ive always kind of followed your post cause you have been part of the h22a scene for what seems like a long time, and i fell in love with this engine a long *** time ago haha.

but once again thanks for any help you can give me.

 

just send me a pm or email me back when you get the chance to take a look at that to you for being a standup guy by the way

 

ok at first glance it looks like you started with the p13 calibration which is a good start! lol.

first, when starting out tuning it is a little better, IMO, to tune off the 2d graph as it is easier to see the flow. Lines on this 2d graph should NEVER cross. They can touch but column 5 should never cross with column 6 and never cross with column 4. In most cases, a fully tuned map will be very smooth with corresponding load lines on the 2d charts have a similar look to them. If at 350mbar there is a hump in the fuel, there is likely going to be a hump in the line below it and above it. You will notice that the graph when fully tuned will be very uniform and parallel for the most part. Just remember that as you are driving, the program is not choosing the fueling just from the one cell it is highlighting, it is choosing values from the surrounding cells and averaging them all together to come up with a final value that the injector sees.

lets start off with your low cam fuel. You got lines crossing everywhere! lol

Oh, before i get into this, i hope you are not using autotune during WOT conditions. It cant sample fast enough to get a real idea of what it wants so keep autotuning to light acceleration and times to where you can keep the cell in one spot for a given amount of time so the program can get a larger enough sample to get a good idea of what needs to happen there.

From where you are now, with cruising, etc and WOT slightly touched, you should be able to get an idea of what the chart wants to look like even from the little amount of datalogging that you have done. For cruising and light acceleration, this engine LOVES to be ran lean and you can really get great gas mileage. Pay attention to the injector durations while you are tuning part throttle fuel. Injector duration is how long the injector is open. Higher number = longer. This will become important because you can run the engine lean to the point that it requires more fuel for the engine to maintain momentum. Just FYI, i have been able to tune my stock motor to 16.5 for interstate driving without any hiccups or misfiring. Being able to run that lean is a combination of finding the right ignition timing and honestly just trial and error. This is also where ignition timing is key for part throttle. This can be tough to tune and to be honest I done the majority of part throttle ignition by the feel and sound of the engine. Your stock motor has a pretty large window for error so dont be afraid to play around with it and only do smallish increments at a time. If you ever hear something that sounds like BB's being tossed into a glass jar then let off the gas and either add fuel or reduce timing by a degree. Spark plug reading also becomes very handy in tuning part throttle. There is a page in my wiki which has a very detailed explanation of how to read the plugs properly for both fueling and ignition timing.

now, high cam fuel and ignition. Across the board, shoot for around 13:1 (approx .90 lambda). Notice in your logs that you are hitting spots of .80-.83 lambda for a good maajority of the WOT log which is low 12's in the AFR. Also notice the map reading. Once you get on the dyno you will be able to figure out what AFR it likes, but 13:1 is a pretty neutral zone. Pay close attention to the transition periods from the low to high cam. These values need to be "synced" together. It should be a linear transition, not a huge jump...in most cases. When you get on the dyno, you will notice that the shape of the torque curve has a close resemblance of the fueling graph in 2d. Just a little hint . On the high cam, you will get to a point (normally around 67-7000) to where the engine will want less and less fuel. Thats ok! Do what the wideband says for now. Once you get a little more "tuned" to getting things done, you can worry about get nit picky with individual cylinder trims by reading the spark plugs.

ok well my mind just drew a blank and i cant think of much else to say so i'll end this post with just have fun with it. Its really a joy knowing that you can do it yourself and you dont have to rely on an outside source to get things done.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask because i didnt cover much of anything lol.

 

so how do i set autotune to just work for low cam fuel and not high cam? also when im driving and trying to make changes to the high cam fuel it wont let me switch to that map i will click that map and it switch straight back to the low cam map.


also im gonna copy the low cam p13 map back over and start over on that again haha. besides the rich condition on the high cam did it look ok?

i dont exactly have access to a dyno locally i would have to make close to a 4 hour trip for a dyno. so im not exactly gonna be able to touch the ignition table awhole lot, besides maybe a degree or 2 here and there.

so for the most part the fuel tables both low cam and high cam should be pretty much go uphill smoothly till right before 7000rpms? how high should i actually tune the low cam table to? i took it up till about 7000rpms and thats about all the higher then engine could go haha.


ninja edit: im gonna email you the map i corrected it, havent drove on it quite yet getting ready to.....im getting addicted to this haha my time right now its almost 11 but o well.

this map is alot cleaner looking and the transition into vtec looks better but i dont know quite yet how the afrs are gonna look yet



Modified by sohctodohc at 9:44 PM 10/8/2008

 

i'll give you some advice on that later, time for bed.

a couple other things i did notice that you need to do is disable closed loop while you are tuning. You dont want the ecu compensating fuel in the back ground via primary o2 sensor.
the other thing i noticed was the injector sizing. you are currently running the jdm h22 injectors which are around 330-345. Hondata is setup to run 450cc. If hondata has the h22 setup to run on 310cc, then you need to use that because running a map setup for 450cc is going to throw off your fuel mulipler, which is going to result in you making large corrections in the table, like you saw in your low cam fuel.

 

that looks much better. You still need to smooth the transition with fuel and ignition better. Your vtec is at 5000 so just reference the WOT area at 5000 rpm on the low cam and high cam and make them meet smoothly. Same with the ignition. Have the ignition built up to match the high cam. You'll notice that the high cam has a big dip in it for the vtec engagement, wonder why honda didnt make that smooth? Advertising VTEC .

Just one last thing before i go to bed, you can typically feel and hear where vtec needs to be and how it wants to be tuned. Set to where you feel the engagement the least. wherever your motor makes peak torque, the timing curve should look like a ramp to peak torque and then it will flatten out or even decrease in the upper RPM. I'l give you a hint for the WOT timing currently in the map. On both the low cam and high cam, the final ignition timing degree's going to your engine are about what i run with my 12.2:1 H on 93 octane.....give it some more

you should really read this article by jeff evans:
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...iming

it was the ice breaker for me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that looks much better. You still need to smooth the transition with fuel and ignition better. Your vtec is at 5000 so just reference the WOT area at 5000 rpm on the low cam and high cam and make them meet smoothly. Same with the ignition. Have the ignition built up to match the high cam. You'll notice that the high cam has a big dip in it for the vtec engagement, wonder why honda didnt make that smooth? Advertising VTEC .

Just one last thing before i go to bed, you can typically feel and hear where vtec needs to be and how it wants to be tuned. Set to where you feel the engagement the least. wherever your motor makes peak torque, the timing curve should look like a ramp to peak torque and then it will flatten out or even decrease in the upper RPM. I'l give you a hint for the WOT timing currently in the map. On both the low cam and high cam, the final ignition timing degree's going to your engine are about what i run with my 12.2:1 H on 93 octane.....give it some more

you should really read this article by jeff evans:
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...iming

it was the ice breaker for me.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


so you do mean between the low and high cam transitioning into vtec try keep the numbers at 5000 somewhat close between the maps?? cause there pretty close now.

and as i said i dont want to dick with ignition quite yet, atleast not until i get my afrs to where i want them then i will move onto the ignition.

i gotta give up for the night ive managed to give myself a migraine haha

thanks for letting me pick your brain

 

k so today i think i made some damn good progress on both low and high cam fuel maps, still not quite brave enough to touch the ignition tables yet haha.

but im gonna email you the new map to show you how it looks and then i have a bunch of datalogs of just low cam, and then just high cam. and then both of them.

im really excited how it turned out, besides the knock im picking up around the 4000rpm area im happy with how tonight went!!

let me know what you think

 

this reply is to anyone really, what kind of ignition advance are you guys running at wot?
and at idle?

I currently have Neptune RTP and trying to pass emissions with a cat and am getting FAIL results LAME.. anyway just wanted to see what kind of power your making with ignition values.

--Aaron

 

post a screen shot of your fuel and ignition maps.

 

Allright,

here they are!
This first image is the "supposed base image" submitted by someone, all I did was increment fuel values in the low/high cam fuel maps the same amount of % rather then using fuel trims.. either way here it is, ignition timing is a bit too much as i hear bb's in a can = BAD


Moving on, this is the base p28-p72 rom, I believe, either way this is semi tuned to idle correctly along with have 16.5:1 AF ratio at idle with closed loop off so I could attempt to pass emissions, which resulted in Hydrocarbons being 385, passing is 220, CO level was well within spec of .2 something and passing was anything under 1.000. and the tuner commented on ignition timing on the base p28 gsr map being slightly high so he pulled some at top end of the low and high cam maps, with this map I have only included screenshots of the lowcam fuel/ignition as we have not touched the high cam fuel/ignition and on this map I keep the rpm under 5k "pre vtec engagement"

so here is the map im using now


Here is the base tune "first image map" which is old and crap
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=380JFYGY

This is the "p28-p72 rom map" that I'm currently using now, and frankly it idles a ton better and there is quite a bit less fuel corrections going on, tip in trims all that nonsense are not messed with either.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7GVI0NKB

That's pretty much it, since it didn't pass emissions I am kinda twiddling my thumbs figuring out the options and all, which is one reason why I haven't had it make love to a dyno yet and change anything else.

 

bumpzilla

 

Bump

 

good post's definety gonna read a few more times