I just received my head back from Alaniz. Due to the racing season overload, it's been at his shop since February. Please tell me if the wait was worth it















Modified by 7rrivera7 at 12:00 PM 9/16/2008


Modified by 7rrivera7 at 12:01 PM 9/16/2008


Modified by 7rrivera7 at 12:36 PM 9/18/2008

 

Do you have flow sheets?

 

Did you have him install new guides?, it doesn't look like it. I would have with new valves going in for sure. I am not a fan of cutting the guides like that either. How much was the fee? What package did you buy or ask for?


Modified by FST GSR 1 at 7:33 AM 9/16/2008

 

how much did you pay and what kind of work did you request?

 

This head was originally done back in 2003 - 'Street Master' headwork at a cost of around $800 including shipping to and from Puerto Rico (expensive).

* Complete visual inspection of complete head.
* Check all surfaces for straightness.
* Complete disassembly.
* Inspect all valvetrain parts for wear.
* Degrease and clean head of all oils.
* Street port and polish which is: (bowl port, gasket match1 inches into runners only. Polish, deshroud and debur all chambers.
* Competition Valve Job.
* Resurface and hand lap head surface up to .020 material removal.
* Reassemble complete head.
* New valve seals.

After that, I got real 'serious' with my build, changed the bore on my LS block from 81 to 84.5mm and sent the head back in for an upgrade to 'Competition' plus Pro Chambers. This cost another $900 including shipping.

* Complete visual inspection of complete head.
* Check all surfaces for straightness.
* Complete disassembly.
* Inspect all valvetrain parts for wear.
* Degrease and clean head of oils.
* Full Competition port and polish head.
* Deshroud, polish and debur all chambers.
* Competition valve job.
* Resurface and hand lap head to customer specs, or up to .030 material removal.
* Reassemble complete head. Final CC check.
* Includes new valve seals.

The flow sheet was included in the price but was not delivered. I'm working on that too

 

'looks' nice , although we all know looks dont matter to flow..

im more curious though on the ff:

degrease and clean head of oils..
was this missed out? or not done..
from what i see the only clean parts are the ones worked on.. either by the carbide/porting tool and or milling machine,

gasket surfaces on the manifolds look , not cleaned?

just curious though.. im sure they dont affect performance anyways

 

looks like pretty basic stuff on the inlet side. you cant see the bowl and VJ in the pictures which will be critical.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7rrivera7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This head was originally done back in 2003 - 'Street Master' headwork at a cost of around $800 including shipping to and from Puerto Rico (expensive).

The flow sheet was included in the price but was not delivered. I'm working on that too </TD></TR></TABLE>

I say you have a 3rd party flow bench test it as if they already sent you the head you might get a "flow sheet" from some other head. I would charge them 100$ per hour to flow test it.

 

Send it to me, I will flow it, for $100 and that includes return shipping, IF you ship it to me bare, w no rocker arms, cam caps, etc. I need 4 valves, and 4 retainers, the ones you will use.

I will go out on a limb and say 270ish on the INT, and 200ish on the EXH.

EDIT: Woops, just saw youre in PR. The shipping will cost a bit more then, so my $100 offer is retracted. If you still wanted to me to flow it, PM me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7rrivera7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">












Modified by 7rrivera7 at 12:00 PM 9/16/2008


Modified by 7rrivera7 at 12:01 PM 9/16/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok lets start the head is not customer worthy do to the fact its filthy so I would be one pissed off customer. Two its either your going all out race or your not so why take exhaust guides out and not the intake. I personally prefer street cars to have guides do to the fact the valves do some moving and if your dailying the car its pushing it. Three maybe Im blind but it looks like the divider is a little curved. I also see pitting or is that dirt in the exhaust side. You paid 800 which is cheap for call up and not hook up shipped to PR. I would have to say you got what you paid for. Combustion Contraption would you think so coming from a porting background?

 

1) It's a daily driver
2) Yes, it's filty
3) Yes, that's pitting



Modified by 7rrivera7 at 12:38 PM 9/18/2008

 

I personally think that they skipped a few steps when doing this head, I would question if they actually put the new springs in. I would contact them and have THEM pay for shipping to them, complete the work and the send it back at ABSOLUTELY no charge

 

Not what i expected from alaniz..

 

He cares because he paid for a service that wasn't completed. Dyno's are useless if you don't know what you have to improve on.

I had a Gude head package back in 95, it had cut guides. I speak from experience, do it right with new premium tapered guides, worth the 80$!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by myke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am a close friend of joes..im goin to bring this to his attention and find out why this head went out this way!...when i was working there nothing went out looking like this....but people have to understand that some of this heads are old as fawk and have some sort of calcium or mineral deposit stains and pitting that not even a million dollar hot tank can get rid of.....if you want the head to look brand spanking new send it back and ask him to bead blast the entire thing im sure he will charge you extra.....but you do get what you pay for... time after time do i hear people over the phone and in person asking for discounts on head work and in order to get the special deal there are shortcuts that must be taken. you cant pay 800 dollars for a cylinder head and expect to like a 1200 dollar port job. Thats a 400 dollar difference if you wouldve have paid full price i guarantee you that you wouldve been happier with the reults. They even go as far as taking the exhaust and intake manifolds studs off and resurfacing that area</TD></TR></TABLE>

Myke, with you being a close friend of Joe, I am happy to get you aboard. I have a strong feeling this is going to get resolved and Joe knows about this thread. Whether he reads it and acts upon it or not is up to him.

I would like to clear up a misconception on what I have paid...

If you read my original post, I sent it in in 2003 for a 'Street' package and now again for an UPGRADE to the 'Competition' package. I have spent close to $1700 on this head. Have I gotten what I paid for?

 

Myke,

I agree with you 100%. I have no idea what this head looked like before it was sent in, but you can tell it wasn't tanked or cleaned. It also took quite some time....almost like a head thrown on a back burner and forgotten about and rushed through. Just my perception of the matter.

 

I wouldn't have any engine or head work done where I couldn't do business face to face. Thats a personal preference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by myke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who cares about what it looks like...put it on the motor and go to the dyno end of story......about the guy that said the the cut exhaust valve guide is a bad idea i had my head ported way back in 2000 and still no valve issues and its a 200 plus hp daily driven civic (100 milles round trip to work and home)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well well Mikey care to shed some of your knowledge about the head. I also have heads that have been around since 96 without guides that doesn't make it safe. Its the luck of the draw sometimes that movement that it allows makes it drop a valve sometimes it doesn't I prefer not to do it for street doesn't mean other people don't. Read the title he wants comments not feedback about your outdated setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by myke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so if i can fix this issue on hand...home many of you guys reading this will consider Alaniz next time they get a head ported or know someone that might? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ive always heard good things about ALANIZ but the end results would be the tell tell if people can go to him. I got a buddy thts been waiting for 4 months to long hahahha. I personally know it doesnt take that long to clean a head up better than that though, and other porters on here can contest to that. That ZEP degreaser Work wonders when you let it set awhile then hot tank the head.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7rrivera7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This head was originally done back in 2003 - 'Street Master' headwork at a cost of around $800 including shipping to and from Puerto Rico (expensive).

* Complete visual inspection of complete head.
* Check all surfaces for straightness.
* Complete disassembly.
* Inspect all valvetrain parts for wear.
* Degrease and clean head of all oils.
* Street port and polish which is: (bowl port, gasket match1 inches into runners only. Polish, deshroud and debur all chambers.
* Competition Valve Job.
* Resurface and hand lap head surface up to .020 material removal.
* Reassemble complete head.
* New valve seals.

After that, I got real 'serious' with my build, changed the bore on my LS block from 81 to 84.5mm and sent the head back in for an upgrade to 'Competition' plus Pro Chambers. This cost another $900 including shipping.

* Complete visual inspection of complete head.
* Check all surfaces for straightness.
* Complete disassembly.
* Inspect all valvetrain parts for wear.
* Degrease and clean head of oils.
* Full Competition port and polish head.
* Deshroud, polish and debur all chambers.
* Competition valve job.
* Resurface and hand lap head to customer specs, or up to .030 material removal.
* Reassemble complete head. Final CC check.
* Includes new valve seals.

The flow sheet was included in the price but was not delivered. I'm working on that too </TD></TR></TABLE>You must have forgoten the 800 he spent earlier when you did you math.900+800=1700$So Beside the fact he had to pay for the cleaning,diss/reassembly and shipping twice do you still think he got a good deal?

 

Ok Mr. Seymour *** (profile name), since it's obvious your role here is to defend your buddy, why don't I just let everyone know the whole story.

1st invoice in 2003 for Street Master work:



This head was shipped with a full Skunk2 Tuner Series valvetrain and ITR SS valves - all new. After getting it back, it sat in a 'show' car and only saw ~100 miles in 4 years before I sent it back in February 2008 for an 'upgrade' to Competition specs for this build:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2375624

Here is the invoice for the 'upgrade' to Competition specs:



Along with the head, I sent in another full Skunk2 Pro Series valvetrain and Supertech Flat Faced Black Nitrate coated valves to replace the existing valvetrain.

Ok, now lets analyze the 2nd invoice which includes discounts because I am 'upgrading' from Street Master to Competition specs - not because I asked for a price break as you are implying. Joe put these prices on the invoice himself:

1) Misc work - upgrade to Competition specs: $575 (cool)

2) Jet Wash $108 after discount - Does my head look like it was cleaned?

3) Flow $112.50 after discount - not delivered so I have NO idea if it has improved from its original 'Street Master' flow. Why would I be charged for a flow chart and then not deliver it with the head? Maybe it's worse? I guess I'll have to take up Combustion Contraption on his offer to flow for me at a cost of $100 + shipping.

4) Shipping via Fedex, handling and new packing materials $110

Head was shipped via USPS at a cost of $80 and the packaging consisted of torn pieces of cardboard and used bubble wrap.

5) Cut exhaust valves - I was not informed this would be done Joe knew this would be a daily driver.

6) I did not receive my original valvetrain or valves back (approx. $550)

7) Joe offered to include Pro Chamber work at N/C since my build went from a stock 81mm chamber size to 84.5mm - not delivered

8) I waited 7 months for this - and I only got it now because I was forced to report his company to the Better Business Bureau. I reported him on Monday the 8th and get a personal call from him on Wednesday the 10th. Before this, I never got him in person - only his voice mail.

Ok, now for some totals...

1st invoice = $905
2nd invoice = $855.50
Total = $1760.50

That's what I have invested. Take away $210 for shipping and it's still $1550.50. And this does not include the cost of my original valvetrain which is basically brand new since it's seen only 100 miles so we're talking $2,100

Now more money has to be spent because I have to remove the valvetrain and test the spring pressure to see which of the Tuner or Pro series are installed. I also want to see if new valve seals were installed which is part of the package.

So here it is for all to see. If this work is worth $1,200 then I'd say I've been doubly screwed - overpaid and under serviced!

If he had to cut corners because I did not pay enough, I should have been informed. This is NOT what I expected from a professional - and even less after waiting 7 months. I agree with another poster on this thread that my head just sat on the shelf and was pushewd through quickly after being reported.

Message to Joe: I did not want to make this public but since you decided to help Myke use my thread to try and make me look bad, you set yourself up and the truth has to be revealed.


Modified by 7rrivera7 at 11:50 PM 9/18/2008


Modified by 7rrivera7 at 11:54 PM 9/18/2008


Modified by 7rrivera7 at 12:06 AM 9/19/2008

 

Look you can't have it both ways,if it's like you said and have to start from scratch everytime why was he only charged to upgrade to a comp pakage and not charged the full amount?
It seems to me that Joe understands this but you don't otherwise he wouldn't have offered the option,right?

 

oh wow....it wasn't dirty BEFORE he shrinked wrapped it? hahahaha what a tool. I know where my head WON'T be going.

Sad part is his name is all over that.. I would never let something leave my shop like that and if it did I would rectify it somehow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by myke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did u ask on paper to get your valves back? </TD></TR></TABLE>So now he was supposed to ask to get his own parts back I see...

Well how about we use a comparison like you tried to earlier.When you go and get your car stereo upgraded to an aftermarket head unit do you usually have to ask for it back or do they just throw it away,or keep it and get to resell it and keep the money for themselves?????

Wow you guys should work for the Bush admimistration it's always the other persons fault,call him a liar and drag his name thru the mud.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fkned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So now he was supposed to ask to get his own parts back I see...

Well how about we use a comparison like you tried to earlier.When you go and get your car stereo upgraded to an aftermarket head unit do you usually have to ask for it back or do they just throw it away,or keep it and get to resell it and keep the money for themselves?????

Wow you guys should work for the Bush admimistration it's always the other persons fault,call him a liar and drag his name thru the mud. </TD></TR></TABLE>

BEAUTIFUL COMPARISON.....