i switched out my old b16a cams for a set of '98 gsr cams but kept the original b16 cam gears. now i am having trouble deciding what to trust. if i use the pin drivers to time the motor, the timing marks on the cam gears are off. my instincts tell me to ignore the timing marks on the gears and stick with the pin drivers but i'm not 100% positive. this is for a b20/vtec setup with a b16 head. suggestions?

 

Whoa! Now Im going to assume that you did not find any information on HTcom about this kind of mix-'n-match setup. Have you seen, read, about anybody using the same?

Now for the basics: One very simple way to make sure you're on the right path with the B16 Sprokets is to install them using the pins, install your timing belt correctly... remember your Cyl.1 TDC, and timing mark lineup. Once you have everything buttoned up, spin the motor (BY HAND!) and watch Cyl.1 TDC and Cyl.1 intake valve. As Cyl.1 comes up on compression stroke both valves should be FULLY closing/closed. Repeat for exhaust stroke. Do not get confused with the other cylinders, you only need to watch #1. Now, there needs to be ABSOLUTE harmony in the operation of cams, valves, and cylinder stroke. If everything looks smooth, then it is up to you to take the decision and run the B16 sprokets with the B18 Cams.

Without concrete information on a previous attempt, or enough money for another re-build if you buck up, I would not recomend what you are trying to attemt...and I build $10,000 Rolls-Royce engines. Good luck and check back with info on whatever procedure you decide to take.

P.S. I forgot to mention that all of the above is omiting the timing marks on the sprokets.

 

gsr, b16, ITR etc. have all the same oem gears

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projectTeG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">gsr, b16, ITR etc. have all the same oem gears
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Simple as that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projectTeG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">gsr, b16, ITR etc. have all the same oem gears
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i was just about to say this. pr3 all the way around, where was the trouble if everything is lined up

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i was just about to say this. pr3 all the way around, where was the trouble if everything is lined up </TD></TR></TABLE>
my timing marks are spot on, but if i were to use pin drivers, they wouldn't line up. do gsr cam caps have the hole in a different location?

I'm going to take pictures when i get home this weekend


Modified by SolAssassin at 6:26 PM 9/16/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SolAssassin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
my timing marks are spot on, but if i were to use pin drivers, they wouldn't line up. do gsr cam caps have the hole in a different location?

I'm going to take pictures when i get home this weekend


Modified by SolAssassin at 6:26 PM 9/16/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes,

 

its impossible to take a picture of it. when the timing marks on the cam gears are lined up, the holes on the cams for the pin drivers face upwards at 12 o'clock. In the EF B16 factory service manual, it says to use the pin drivers when installing the belt. In the GSR factory service manual, it mentions nothing at all about using pin drivers, just lining up the timing marks.

I have come to a few different conclusions:
1. The GSR cam gears are different than the PR3 B16 gears in the sense that they are off by a tooth or so for TDC, which would mean i should trust the pin drivers over the timing marks.
2. The cam caps for the GSR are different in the sense that the pin drivers are loaded in the center of the cam caps instead of off to the side.
OR
3. The pin drivers are a non-factor with GSR heads and should be ignored since they are not mentioned in the factory service manual.

But which one is right?

 

all the B gears are the same. the cams and rails are diffent. you dont use the pin holes. just line the cams up to tdc and be done.

 

JW..will b16 cams fit in GSR head ? thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90rexboost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">JW..will b16 cams fit in GSR head ? thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes

 

ok i set it with the timing marks... thanks TeG!

one problem i'm still having is with b20/vtec timing being half a tooth out on the exhaust cam. i lined it up perfectly when i put on the belt but even after 4 full rotations, the mark doesn't come up on that side. i have heard a lot of people complain about this. should i leave it the way it is or should i advance that gear by 1 tooth? it ends up looking like this (with the white mark lined up at the pointer):

Note the red mark:

Actual photo:

 

make sure the bottom end is timed correctly. BTW what water pump and timing belt are you using?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projectTeG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">make sure the bottom end is timed correctly. BTW what water pump and timing belt are you using?
</TD></TR></TABLE>



It doesn't matter what VTEC B-series gears you use, they are PR3's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projectTeG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">make sure the bottom end is timed correctly. BTW what water pump and timing belt are you using?
</TD></TR></TABLE>GSR / Type R Water pump and Gates Racing belt (for the same car)
Also, the head is slightly milled

 

it looks like its closer on this tooth than the next one

 

i guess thats how b20vtec timing is... slightly off

 

that's exactly the problem i am having with 401s and a b18c. i'm starting to wonder just what's up with this. milling seems to be the only thing we have in common but how in the hell does that create this condition.

 

You people REALIZE The motor is tilted correct?

PUtting the gears str8 up isn't putting STRAIGHT UP on the motor..

your exhaust is going a but point directly up in the direction the motor is tilted..

it will never be str8 up to our standards but to timing standards on a motor thats tilted it will be..


1) Allow the cams to relax on the arms..
2) set the crank back a tooth or two
3) put the belt on
4) Rotate the crank with the belt on the gears so that when the crank reachs TDC the gear marks are Lined up equally with each other in the middle.. When the gears are lined up in the middle , step back and look at the top of your gears.. the Up direction is going to be kindof "tilted" towards the front of the motor.

in all acutallitiy your exhaust rest on 11am and your intake at 1 am.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SolAssassin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GSR / Type R Water pump and Gates Racing belt (for the same car)
Also, the head is slightly milled</TD></TR></TABLE>

you'll have to compensate for the milling by advacing your gears +.5

 

i never go off the "up" marks. i always use the line marks.

 

finally got an answer on this. when you mill a lot, like the .040 i did and i'm guessing the OP of this post is near that as well. the lines won't line up anymore. i guess slack in the timing belt creates this condition and retards cam timing {which we all knew} depending on who you talk to you either sdvance half or one degree per .015. it also seems like this number climbs the more you take. in other words .010 off a head is around half a degree but .040 might be more like 3 degrees. i talked to a tuner this morning and he said not to worry about the lines. what the cars need is dyno time. it's the only way that you will find out where they will perform the best.