want to know how much of a difference top mounted injectors on manifolds and ITB's do power wise. Cant seem to find anything good on the web and i know I've seen a few people here doing it

 

bump for people with personal experience on this

 

+10-15 HP has been the feedback we get. Here's one example.

- Dotted green: Honda RBC Manifold
- Dotted red: Kinsler K20 ITB with injectors in stock location
- Solid green: Upper Injector rail
- Solid Pink: - can't disclose
- Solid light Blue: - can't disclose

Keep in mind, the customer wanted to make more power between 8,000 and 10,000 with this combination, so that's what the manifold was set up for (short runners). Longer ramtubes would improve the midrange - but that wasn't the objective.

 

i ran my injectors on the bottom bungs of a victor X and then moved them back and it seems to run nicer in the stock location. i think a lot of fuel was falling out of suspension when they were moved back. plus i was running E85 so there was more fuel passing through the engine. i didnt dyno back to back, but just street tuning it the stock location seemed to be better. this was a 2.2 with vtec killers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lohatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i ran my injectors on the bottom bungs of a victor X and then moved them back and it seems to run nicer in the stock location. i think a lot of fuel was falling out of suspension when they were moved back. plus i was running E85 so there was more fuel passing through the engine. i didnt dyno back to back, but just street tuning it the stock location seemed to be better. this was a 2.2 with vtec killers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

more info......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude98SH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

more info...... </TD></TR></TABLE>

what do you want to know?

 

Well up top from what i understand it should help fuel to atomize better. However your saying from your experience it did not run too well.

However would starting in cold conditions be harder with the injectors placed further back ? I would think more fuel would fall out of suspension.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scmil95eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">+10-15 HP has been the feedback we get. Here's one example.

- Dotted green: Honda RBC Manifold
- Dotted red: Kinsler K20 ITB with injectors in stock location
- Solid green: Upper Injector rail
- Solid Pink: - can't disclose
- Solid light Blue: - can't disclose

Keep in mind, the customer wanted to make more power between 8,000 and 10,000 with this combination, so that's what the manifold was set up for (short runners). Longer ramtubes would improve the midrange - but that wasn't the objective.


</TD></TR></TABLE>
Can't disclosed.. wtf is that gay ****.. people want to learn to make more power.. its like those people like 3 months ago who were doing that "soy sauce" and 50proof ****.. thats so annoy if your not going to tell everything dont say nothing.. its stupid to hide serects...People want to learn what makes power and what doesn't whats so hard to understand.
Which is probably what you did, you injected meth, or did some type of fuel mixture.. obviously.

 

he showed the difference in the stock location and the upper rail. Exactly what the OP was looking for.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he showed the difference in the stock location and the upper rail. Exactly what the OP was looking for.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wanna know what those two top lines are.

 

I can see where this is going to go. pink is a fuel cooler with dry ice and p.g. blue is with the exhaust removed, except for the header.

Now don't go burning your hands on dry ice or rip off your exhaust.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraType-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">obviously.</TD></TR></TABLE>

obviously not.

 

too bad. He gave the OP what he wanted so his post was not useless and provided technical information so just step back and take a breathe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he showed the difference in the stock location and the upper rail. Exactly what the OP was looking for.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And that proves what i said that you will gain up top with the injectors placed back further.

What was the injector location during the blue and purple line runs ?

 

upper

Everybody that's tried the upper rail has stuck with it because of the gains. It seems like in the import world, this is revolutionary. But in the grand scheme of motorsports, this is 40+ year old technology. Look at Can-Am cars from the 60's and 70's, nozzles are up in the ramtubes, above the butterflies, a good 14 - 16 inches away from the intake valve. Ferrari's from the same era had their Lucas mechanical nozzles up in the ramtubes, almost as far away from the intake valve as they could get it. F1 cars today do the exact same thing, injectors above the ramtubes, as far away as they can get them. It makes more power, has for decades. It's a no-brainer.

OEM's have emissions #1, packaging, mass producing, and mass assembling to worry about, that's why OEM's put injectors where they do. Also, for response, the closer to the intake valve, the better.


Modified by scmil95eg at 8:07 PM 9/17/2008

 

We saw over a 20whp gain, and even more with Kinsler prepped bosch injectors over the popular injectors in this forum. A key element is also using the proper EMS to "wean" the lower injector spray to the top feed injection, as using top only could be VERY dangerous due to back feed during cam overlap at low rpms.
Our choice: AEM EMS!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We saw over a 20whp gain, and even more with Kinsler prepped bosch injectors over the popular injectors in this forum. A key element is also using the proper EMS to "wean" the lower injector spray to the top feed injection, as using top only could be VERY dangerous due to back feed during cam overlap at low rpms.
Our choice: AEM EMS!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, so your saying you used a proportional feed scheme with the upper an lower injectors to get normal drivabililty?

 

Well, in Bisi's application, I'm not sure what "normal driveability" is. Running 9.4 ET's with a SOHC Accord motor requires specific modifications for power in a specific powerband. Plus, he doesn't have the luxury of varying lobe separation (overlap) on the fly, like you can with a K-series.

K-series is a different animal and we do have a growing number of K's running uppers only (racing applications - not daily drivers). With VTEC and VTC, overlap and duration is small at low RPM's. We haven't had any feedback regarding reversion or hazing being an issue on a K.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow, so your saying you used a proportional feed scheme with the upper an lower injectors to get normal drivabililty?</TD></TR></TABLE>

at idle it probably runs on the OEM location and once the engine comes up in RPM the second set starts to fire.