Can you take a look at my pics and see if you have any suggestions? Trying cut,notch with a sawzall and make everything to go to one point is hell! Harness bar is not made and I'm not sure if I should make the rear an X. It is just for lapping days no rules/book to follow(front wil be added later).

I can see how the X can be important when you have the rear tubes in the corners. As you pull back on the bar the tubes want to move toward the middle(straight section) so the crossbar locates the rear tube in the corner. But I see many cars with no rear diagnol or just one so I am not sure.

1.5DOM .095

Nothing is tacked just the hoop, I never tacked 1/8 plate to floors before, totaly ruined my gas lense I'm going to get a friend to mig those up. Yes I know I have to clean the floor.









thanks




Modified by Fantastico at 5:54 PM 8/11/2008

 

Not bad for a first try

 

Thanks

 

Looks really nice man.

 

Good start

I don't see the need for the bars from the main hoop(close to the floor), to the rear bars- added weight....

Wouldn't pass tech anyways- main hoop is >180*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wouldn't pass tech anyways- main hoop is &gt;180*</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought it was 180 degrees +/- 10 degrees. I could be wrong though.

Nice work OP.

 

Nice fitment man. Good to see every tube atach to a node. Do you ever plan on making this into a cage? Because if you do it will be a bitch (cut off roof skin go from top) welding a-pillar bars/door bars in, once your roll bar is done. Also when your friend migs those plates in make sure you clean the under coating from the belly that will be close to the weld pool, cause that **** gets on fire and smokes like a s0nomabitch. And I think most sanctioning bodies allow a slight variation from total of 180* on main hoops like ^^.dave mentioned. EDIT: SCCA CCR:

15.6.6 Main Hoop
The main roll cage hoop should be as wide as the full width of the interior and must be
as close to the roof as possible without violating CCR section #15.6.20 Inspection. One
continuous length of roll bar tubing shall be used as the main hoop. The main hoop
must consist of not more than four (4) bends maximum, totaling one hundred eighty
(180) degrees +/- ten (10) degrees.

Did you leave that slight gap between the roof and main hoop for ease of welding the rear legs or because you didn't want to make holes in the floor to drop the hoop down.


Modified by preludeserge at 12:13 PM 8/12/2008

 

Hey thanks guys, I not really sure if this car will get the front half for the cage but I understand what you are saying and it would be a bitch to weld those A bars to the B. I was thinking maybe holesaw a hole in the b pillar to get to the joint? Then weld back the piece after? The B pillar is covered by a piece of black plastic trim I think.

Ya I just tried tacking the plate with the tig and smoke was coming up through the floor! I don't know how, then I looked underneath and was like ahh ok Plus there must be 20 yrs of other crap in the floors. Soon as I hit the pedal there was smoke. I was like man I'm not going to sit here and breathe all that crap in playing with a pedal and filler and trying to keep my head out if the smoke.

I was thinking I'd weld up the bars then go over to my firnds and we'd cut the tacks on the plates move the bar forward mig and rossette weld the plates and move the bar back. Hopefully it doesn't warp or anything after cutting the tacks lol.

Ok in the first picture is the hoop not trimmed with no plates. I first cut 1/8 off and tried to fit the plates but it still wouldn't fit because the floor isn't perfectly flat so I ended cutting a bit much off(the last picture is it cut sitting on plates. I think now though it is easier to get at to weld the rear bars as I can pull the plates as well.





Modified by Fantastico at 10:03 PM 8/11/2008

 

I don't know much about welding so I have a question.

Why are the plates that will be welded to the body perforated? The only thing I can think of is so you can weld it to the body in places besides the perimeter of the plate for extra strength.

 

Yep, those holes are exactly for that, aka rosette welds. I don't know if quiet that many are needed, but I didn't find anything mentioning/disallowing it in the NHRA or SCCA rulebook. Definitely wouldn't hurt. Also OP, you might need to trim the bar that connects both main hoop legs on the bottom, so you can pull the legs even more towards the middle of the car, in order to weld 360* around the feet of the main hoop-to-plates. Tie down strap with a ratchet will do the job.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by preludeserge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep, those holes are exactly for that, aka rosette welds. I don't know if quiet that many are needed, but I didn't find anything mentioning/disallowing it in the NHRA or SCCA rulebook. Definitely wouldn't hurt. Also OP, you might need to trim the bar that connects both main hoop legs on the bottom, so you can pull the legs even more towards the middle of the car, in order to weld 360* around the feet of the main hoop-to-plates. Tie down strap with a ratchet will do the job.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know if that many holes are needed either, just thought it was a good idea? In the perfect world would you stich the plates as opposed to a full seam?

Good Idea about the rachet strap, is that an ok idea to weld those legs when they are under that type of tension? I don't know, just asking. There is a little gap but I don't think enough. I was going to weld the legs to the side plate aswell so maybe it doesn't matter?

Today I thought I better make the X because I know wouldn't be able to sleep if I didn't throw that in lol




Next up just waiting for some tube for the harness bar, the bar will be pretty low because the seat is pretty much on the floor so I don't think I'll be able to use the bend in the side of the hoop as a node. But I'm just gussing as it May be higher I don't know yet...I'll try to see how the seat sits tommorow

Thanks guys for the comments


Modified by Fantastico at 3:46 PM 8/12/2008


Modified by Fantastico at 4:17 PM 8/12/2008


Modified by Fantastico at 4:31 PM 8/12/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fantastico &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good Idea about the rachet strap, is that an ok idea to weld those legs when they are under that type of tension? I don't know, just asking. There is a little gap but I don't think enough. I was going to weld the legs to the side plate aswell so maybe it doesn't matter?

Today I thought I better make the X because I know wouldn't be able to sleep if I didn't throw that in lol

Next up just waiting for some tube for the harness bar, the bar will be pretty low because the seat is pretty much on the floor so I don't think I'll be able to use the bend in the side of the hoop as a node. But I'm just gussing as it May be higher I don't know yet...I'll try to see how the seat sits tommorow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not exactly sure if welding tube slightly under tension is a very bad idea. Maybe someone with engineering background can chime in. If you still got the bender, I'd take the hoop out and maybe add a couple of more degrees to the bends? The reason I threw that comment in there about the tie down strap, is because that's what I had to do on the cage for my car. My main hoop was as tight as yours and I already welded harness bar in (NHRA cage, one piece harness bar, as opposed to one piece diagonal), so I couldn't put the hoop back in my bender. The reason I mention welding 360* around is because I assumed you are into auto-x/hpde (who knows maybe one day SCCA/NASA wtw racing) and want to conform to SCCA/NASA rules as close as possible (this assumption was based strictly on your choice of tubing though, lol). SCCA CCR:

15.6.13 Mounting Points
The roll cage shall be mounted to the floor of the car in six, seven, or eight points. The cage shall not go through the firewall. The seventh and eighth points must attach to the firewall or front fender wells. All cage attachment points must be mounted to plates. Each required cage bar shall terminate on a plate with a 360 degree weld to the mounting plate, except as specified in Section 15.6.14.B. There shall be only one (1) mounting “point” per plate. This point is defined as where the “required tube” mounts. All additional tubes mounted to that plate must be mounted as close to the required tube as possible [Ref: (15.6.14.B)].

 

Hey thanks for your posts and input I apprciate it

I took a look today and played with the tungsten and I can weld all the way around without the sideplate there. So I think I'll get the bottom plate welded first, then 360 the leg,add the sideplate then rear plate and I think it will be OK. I will also weld the leg up to the sideplate. My plans don't always work out that perfect though lol.

I was asking more out of a engineering point of view I guess about the Seam , vs stich. Stich could always be turned into a seam too hehe


Ok today I welded the rear tubes and I must say Tig is very hard trying to make the pedal work with your knees elbows etc lol.Using the pedal inbetween your thighs definately works lol. I would love to try one of those finger controls and I'm going to go look for my rollerblade knee pads lol. This is my first time welding not at a table , what a complete pain in the back,knees,hands etc lol.

Yup I'm doing HPDE type of stuff but I'm up in Canada.


Modified by Fantastico at 6:47 PM 8/13/2008


Modified by Fantastico at 6:47 PM 8/13/2008


Modified by Fantastico at 6:49 PM 8/13/2008

 

looks good!

maybe i missed it but what bender are you using?

 

Actually my friend bent it up, I think it's a JD2 with the hydro cylinder

 

Not bad for the first go round, but....

the lower bars from rear shock tower to hoop base are not very effective, a lower X is best for that function (see below)



cheers,

 

Not to pee in your cheerios, but you may have some hassles having a bar built out of the smaller material. Scca requires 1.75x.120 for their four point bars. Not sure about NASA.

That is a really nice bar otherwise. But why are you doing all th other bracing if you aren't going to go ahead and run the a-pillar bars and door bars? You really aren't gaining any chassis stiffness to speak of because there is no support going forward to tie the cage into the rest of the body.

 

I think he might be doing the rest of the cage at some point. And if I remember right this is the right od, wall thickness tube for a cage on a &lt;2500lb. car. So a full legal cage is only two sticks of tubing (cut and notched with sawzall ) away.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fantastico &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you take a look at my pics and see if you have any suggestions? Trying cut,notch with a sawzall and make everything to go to one point is hell! Harness bar is not made and I'm not sure if I should make the rear an X. It is just for lapping days no rules/book to follow(front wil be added later).</TD></TR></TABLE>

OP if you haven't welded everything in though, this would be the perfect opportunity to convert your roll bar into a full cage, stay SCCA legal, and gain the benefits of having the full cage. Either way, post pics when it's done.


Modified by preludeserge at 2:51 AM 8/15/2008

 

Absolutely. May as well, add the front structure.

 

Hey guys I was thinking. I don't think I'll be able to do the front any time soon as I have had to do this in my driveway with no garage in a condo/townhouse complex. Just imagine it raining everyday(don't want to weld with that). Insane humidity to be working inside a car and everytime you want to cut anything you have to go to the backyard. No grinders or chopsaw for too long because well it's too loud for the old ladies. At the end of the day I have to dosconnect the argon tank and roll that back into my shed. Windows are taped up so the neighbours don't see the welding lol. It's been a giant pain in the ***, mostly because when I forst started it I didn't know how to notch. I thought I needed the holesaw or the 4&1/2 grinder, so I wasted a lot of time and some tube before I tried the sawzall

I think I'll have someone else do the front or leave it for when I find some space to work.


I'm in Canada .095 is fine, I was thinking I'd overkill it and go with a simple 1.75/.120 but it didn't make sense over a more complex .095 plus as prelude surge said 095 cage is OK.


I understand the Lower X B18CXr but why no diagnols in your rear supports? What locates your rear supports besides welds. I'm just asking because I asked that in the first post

Thanks guys


Modified by Fantastico at 6:35 PM 8/15/2008


Modified by Fantastico at 6:36 PM 8/15/2008

 

I'm sure that roll bar will give you enough roll over protection as is. Defenitly better with it in the car than without. And as long as senctioning bodies allow you to run with it, it's all good. Your situation is all too similar to mine except I welded mine just outside of my garage in 100*F CA weather and I didn't have to notch tubing with a sawzall.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by preludeserge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice fitment man. Good to see every tube atach to a node. Do you ever plan on making this into a cage? Because if you do it will be a bitch (cut off roof skin go from top) welding a-pillar bars/door bars in, once your roll bar is done. Also when your friend migs those plates in make sure you clean the under coating from the belly that will be close to the weld pool, cause that **** gets on fire and smokes like a s0nomabitch. And I think most sanctioning bodies allow a slight variation from total of 180* on main hoops like ^^.dave mentioned. EDIT: SCCA CCR:

15.6.6 Main Hoop
The main roll cage hoop should be as wide as the full width of the interior and must be
as close to the roof as possible without violating CCR section #15.6.20 Inspection. One
continuous length of roll bar tubing shall be used as the main hoop. The main hoop
must consist of not more than four (4) bends maximum, totaling one hundred eighty
(180) degrees +/- ten (10) degrees.

Did you leave that slight gap between the roof and main hoop for ease of welding the rear legs or because you didn't want to make holes in the floor to drop the hoop down.


Modified by preludeserge at 12:13 PM 8/12/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

How close can it be to the roof?

 

You fixed it with the X, but I was going to tell you the diagonal between the rear arms needs to be in the opposite direction of the diagonal in the main hoop. And I think the pics Yack posted (B18CXR) were of the cage before it was finished. Whatever the case, that car is technically a street car, and has to haul all his wheels and **** in the back. He might be able to get away with one diagonal, but an X would take up a ton of room there.

 

looks good?
you ever tried to make a strutbar?&gt;