i've only done a few events but i have to say they are very addictive. It becomes a goal to lower my time with each run. I haven't done any suspention changes to my 94 integra LS yet but following some wheel and tire upgrades i plan to look into my lowering options. Now here is the question. which would you say is a better over all set up for a street and weekend autox car.

1) a true coilover sys. like progress or tein SS
2) coil over sleeves on shocks (ground control on koni (adj or non-adj)
3) springs on shocks (eibach prokit on koni (adj or non-adj)

i find the cost effective would be either 2 or 3. 2 being better if i want an adjustable ride hight but which is the better performer? id assume the true coil over cause the spings are made for the shock they are with to work with each other, but wouldn't a good set up of spings be just as good?

thanks for the info in advance.

 

Since you said wheel and tire upgrades are coming first, I'm guessing you're going to spend some time in the seat the way the car is (the best way to lower times, which I'm still working on). When you do decide you want better springs and shocks, what you get depends on how competitive you want ot get what class, etc.
If you want to be competitive, then I suggest the true coilovers. Like you said, the shock and spring are designed together, and the shock body is threaded, eliminating the problems that sleeves create. The purpose of the adjustability is to cornerweight the car, setting the cross weights evenly. If you don't really want to compete, but just go have fun and post a respectable time, I'd say get a good spring/shock combo. Pick your spring rates with Eibach ERS springs if you want, and match them with Koni Yellows. That's MHO.

 

ok, lets get this straight. there is NO MEANING TO "TRUE COILOVER". A coilover suspension design exists in almost all sedans currently made, which is where a coiled spring surrounds the damper - as opposed to a leaf spring system, or even separating the coil spring from the damper as in the rear of VWs. and guess what? your integra comes with a coilover suspension in all 4 corners! so tell all your friends you have a TRUE COILOVER system.

Ok, sorry (no im not), im being too blunt. Its not your fault, i knew what you meant, there just needs to be some freaking education on this. What Ground Control offers is an adjustable spring perch, and for those cars that dont already have coilover systems, it works for them too to now achieve a "true coilover"system. Theres no difference in the CAPABILITY of Tein vs a Koni-GC-Eibach suspension. What Tein offers is an integrated threaded body shock. And having an adjustable spring perch allows you several things: adjust ride height, thats it, wait, no hmmm oh yeah, you can customize your spring rates. the thing tho is that you can customize it WRONG more than you can customize it BETTER, unless you know what youre doing. Same goes for ride height, which allows corner weighing. again, you need to know what you are doing and what you are after to make any benefit of this.

Anyway, my advice... buy some off the shelf adjustable shocks and use eibach prokits if you want to upgrade your suspension. but that wont lower your times. YOU WILL. so best thing to do, is invest in yourself, and it doesnt cost as much money. that will lower your lap times the most.

 

Lowering the car does not necessarily mean better handling. Most people that lower their cars end up doing it incorrectly. The most you should go on a non-shortened shock is about 1".

As for threaded body coilovers vs sleeves, you'll probably never know the difference behind the wheel. What I like about threaded body coilovers though, is that these days, you can get threaded body coilovers with seperate height and preload adjustments for a reasonable amount (less than $1500).

Oh, and I'm of the opinion that the Eibach prokit is not very good on Tegs, but that's just IMO If you want a real budget solution, go for something like Bilstein sports (you'll need Type R rear lower control arms, so don't do this if it's going to kick you out of a class), and ground control sleeves w/ 400F/500R spring rates. You can do this whole solution for under $900.

If you're willing to burn more money, you can look at threaded body coilovers like JIC. But hey, I'm biased. They sponsor me

Warren

 

thanks for the quick replys, i do plan on putting in a lot more seat time before upgraded either my tires or my shocks, but it doesn't hurt to look and read up.

Tyson, i guess i should have used threaded body coilovers instead of true-coilovers. i was using it as a way to classify what i think are the 3 options that could be open to me, and that was the general term i've been hearing. I'll be sure to not use it that way anymore


Warren: so you would rather go with ground control sleeves then the prokit? why is that, i've been looking that them as about the same quality cause they both use eibach springs

 

Um... I'm not Warren, but...

The Eibach ERS springs that go with Ground Controls are a completely different spring than the Prokits. They are linear (meaning the spring rate doesn't change as the spring compresses), you can choose your spring rates, and since they are on threaded sleeves you can only lower the car 1" or so as Warren suggested. Prokits are pretty soft (from what I've read) for the amount they lower the car.

Oh yeah, and the ERS spring is pretty generic, and costs like $50 a spring, so you can change your spring rates later if you want.

--buji

 

Yes, Eibach makes both sets of springs, but they are totally different. The Prokit is make to sit on stock spring perches. The ERS are a generic spring made to be fitted to most adjustalbe perch systems.

And what Warren wants and what you should want are unrelated. He knows what he's doing (or so he claims ), you do not (no insult intended, he's just been racing a few years).

Anyhoo, get Koni shocks and leave it at that for now. When you know what your goals are with respect to competition (not just simply lowering your times), then you can pick a spring setup that works,

 

...and please, whatever you do, please do not tip the ninjas.

 

I have to disagree with you there. The GC sleeves use rubber spacers to hold the sleeve tight to the shock. That introduces compliance since the rubber flexes. You may not notice it when driving, but it's just like the flex you get with rubber bushings.
I personally plan to eventually upgrade my suspension with Koni Yellows and Eibach ERS springs. No sleeve. I don't think I'll ever want the edge cornerweighting gives because I autox mostly for fun, not competing. If I do decide eventually to compete, I'll go with an adjustable setup, it'll be a threaded shock body+spring designed together (ie full or true coilover [less of a mouthful ]).
[EDIT: Truechoice has spring height listed with their ERS springs, so I think they can be customized drop-wise as well as spring rate]


[Modified by Steppin Razor, 12:39 PM 7/19/2002]

 

Those O-rings will have nothing to do with turn-in or feel. The force of the springs push straight down, and the sleeve/collar should be firmly mounted as far down as possible. With Konis and Bilsteins, GC sleeves don't use rubber O-rings.

 

Good luck trying to set your ride height with linear springs. You can't just put them on you factory spring perch, the bottoms are flat on the ERS's. Plus, you'll never be able to find the proper ride height/spring rate/spring size combo.

If your against the Ground Control sleeve system, just get the True Choice. They use Koni Sleeves so they fit tight against the shock. I think they use the 2.25in ID springs with a custom hat.


[Modified by 6ghatch, 1:31 PM 7/19/2002]

 

yeah what he said. theres no flex due to the rubber fitting. however, someone did mention the one benefit of threaded body shocks, is ride height adjustablility independent of preload. and thats pretty much it.

and what he said too. you cant use ERS springs on stock perches unless i guess you used some kind of wide diameter washer that was thick (strong) enough, and got a really long spring. at the price of $55 ea spring, then youre just paying $25-30 for each collar and perch. not a bad deal relatively for what you get out of the kit.


[Modified by Tyson, 2:05 PM 7/19/2002]

 

how about, KYB with ITR springs?
I have ITR springs on my 00 Civic Si, with stock shocks, and it was the best upgrade I've done so far.