So I'm just looking for some clairification. Ive read the FAQs but there is alot of information and I am a little confused. From my understanding I will need a chipped ECU. Thats cool. But How do I go about tuning it? Is that where hondata/chrome etc come in? Do you have to burn a new chip every time? I just want to get my engine tuned. There is actually a hondata dealer in my city so I assume they can tune it for me. But can I tune it myself if I get a wideband? I'd like to get a wideband to keep an eye on things and be able to tune it myself. Thanks for helping a noobie out.

 

There are a couple of very basic categories as far as true tuning options go. I am going to oversimplify some of the terms a bit, so don't get too hung up on the details.

<u>EPROM Systems</u>: You can replace the stock chip by soldering in a ZIF (zero insertion force) socket which will allow you to replace it with a chip of your own. There is a category of chip that you can load a program onto your self called an EPROM (as opposed to most manufactured chips which have the program encoded at the factory and cannot be changed later). So, with this system, you would develop a map and 'burn' it onto an EPROM then insert it into the ZIF socket. This is usually the lowest cost option but has some limitations. For example, you have to re-burn a chip when you change the map. There are some emulators available that help get around that, but I don't want to muddy the water by getting into that.

When you buy 'chipped' ECU off ebay, you are essentially buying an EPROM loaded with a program written by a guy who has absolutely no idea what your setup is. And, yes, that is every bit a bad as it sounds.

There are a few companies that have several types of basic chips that are pretty well developed for basic mods. Phearable.net is an example. You can match up your mods with what they have available and often get a pretty good fit. Still not as good as true custom tuning, but better than the ebay crap.

<u>Hardware/Board Systems</u>: There are some systems that insert a new board into your ECU that will allow you to modify the map and run it essentially in real time. Neptune RTP and Hondata are like this. They usually use some sort of cable connection to a laptop, but there are also bluetooth options now.

<u>Replacement Systems</u>: High end systems like the AEM EMS, Motec, etc. just replace the entire ECU with their own box.

I hope this helps a bit and best of luck with your project.


Modified by Top Ramen at 9:30 PM 6/17/2008

 

Thanks man that really clears things up for me. Im going to do some more research now. I'm sure I'll have more questions later though.

 

what it takes in order to tune the engine yourself is dependent on what engine management you decide to choose.

Hondata s300 and Neptune RTP come with all the stuff needed to tune the car besides the wideband
Crome Pro and eCtune Pro require first obtaining the license and then purchasing a moates ostrich and a moates hulog

check out xenocron's site. He has DIY tuning packages for people who want to get into tuning their own cars or even customer cars.

 

Im actually looking into the chipped ecus's from Phearable.net. My setup is pretty mild and this seems like a good option. Now I need to find out some things like what a good vtec engagement point would be. I've seen dynos where dropping it to 4800 rpms or so seems to help smooth things out. Also I need to fiqure out what a good launch rpms would be for the 2 step. And then there is the rev limiter. Should I keep it stock or raise it a little? Once I get these things fiqured out Im going to order the chipped ECU. It looks like a hondata s100 can be added later if I decide I want ot tune it myself.

Thanks for the reply blake, I was hoping you would chime in.

 

Just like you said "seen on a dyno". That is the best way to find out where to drop your VTEC to other than the stock values. Stock crossover is usually the best spot for a non mod'd engine such as yours. Your launch control is something that you will be able to see better on a graph from a dyno. Although you could dial it in with numerous passes at the track. To go by what someone else used is an OK start but you will find your setup and driving skills may not take to it as well.

Dyno tune and time @ the track will give you what you are looking for.

Make sure you have money set aside for a tuning session after you get said chipped ECU. There is only so much a basemap and street tune will do for you.

 

It isnt completly stock. And how would you tell where the launch control needs to be set at with a graph?

 

look for peak torque.

 

They told me that a launch control isnt recommended. This is what they recommend:
Vtec: 4800 rpms
Revlimit: 7800-8000 rpms
Check Engine Shiftlight: 7600 rpms
2 step: not recommended


Any comments on this? I really want a launch control because it would help me be more consistant and not have to worry about holding RPM steady. What about the redline? Does it even make power that high? And can the h22 handle those kinds of RPM stock? And how about the vtec crossover? I read an article by blake that mentions it has alot to do with the length of the intake. I have a ebay short ram.
Thank you so much for helping me out with this. I cant wait to order the ECU.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by G2IntegraGS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They told me that a launch control isnt recommended. This is what they recommend:
Vtec: 4800 rpms
Revlimit: 7800-8000 rpms
Check Engine Shiftlight: 7600 rpms
2 step: not recommended


Any comments on this? I really want a launch control because it would help me be more consistant and not have to worry about holding RPM steady. What about the redline? Does it even make power that high? And can the h22 handle those kinds of RPM stock? And how about the vtec crossover? I read an article by blake that mentions it has alot to do with the length of the intake. I have a ebay short ram.
Thank you so much for helping me out with this. I cant wait to order the ECU.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only reason the 2 step was not recommended is because it can't be altered on the fly without reburning the eprom chip. Track conditions change, your launch point isn't going to be the same as a simular car etc...

The ultimate tuning solution would be a socketed/chipped ecu & having your car dyno tuned :-)

 

Thanks! how about redline? Is it set that high just to give some head room or does it actually make power than high?

 

that RPM is fine for a fuel cut off. Remember that a rev limiter will not stop a mechanical over rev aka misshift.

You can gain a lot of speed on our motors by spinning them a bit higher in order to achieve more momentum while going into the next gear.

 

Awesome! Thanks so much. Ima go ahead and order it today. Now if I want to get it custom tuned all I have to do is buy the hondata s100 and bring it to a dealer?

And to everyone who helped I just want to say thank you!!!

Edit: I went ahead and ordered it. Ill let you know how it goes. Ill be running my car at the track again tommorow if it doesnt rain. So Ill be able to compare time with and without the ECU.


Modified by G2IntegraGS at 4:22 PM 6/20/2008

 

One last question. What about the IAB secondaries? I assume I will recieve a chipped p28 that wont control the secondaries. I've done some searching. It seems I have a few options. I can get a RPM activated switch the activate the IAB's. I can open them all the time or just remove the all together. Or I could get a new manifold whice will cost alot. I dont want to lose he low end tq since this is my DD. Recommendations...?

Ok, after some searching I read that you can use the vaccum source from the little box that usally changes the intake valve(Not sure of the name). I might try this, even tho it opens them up a little earlier.

Or I could get the blacktraxx spacer. Now Ive seen where you (Blake) said that you can tune around this issue. Anyone know if phearable compensates for this?


Modified by G2IntegraGS at 6:20 PM 6/20/2008


Modified by G2IntegraGS at 7:39 PM 6/20/2008

 

Or you could use an ECU with the IAB support added to the ECU board. Or just buy a P72 instead of a P28. Do you have to run a P28? Sounds like a P72 would be more of what your looking for. That way all you have to do is add the IAB wire to your wiring harness.

Do you absolutely have to have a P28?

 

yes b/c phearble only offers p28. I think Im just going to take them out and use the spacer. Or just get a euro-r even tho they are hella expensive.Ill probably need to get it tuned after the intake tho. Im not sure if they have enough experiance with a euro-r to just burn me an eprom. So I might get a s100 and bring it to a local tuner. Now im looking at another $1000.

 

take the whole plate off permanently and bolt the plenum down + retune

 

retune= the suck. Well dont you have to cut the bolt to be able to remove the plate? Whould the blacktraxx spacer not make as much power as removing the spacer completley? I want to get it custom tuned with hondata but i dont have the money right now.

 

you just remove the studs and use shorter bolts to replace the studs.

put one nut on the bolt, butt face up, then the other butt face down and tighten them to each other. Then use a wrench on the bottom nut and remove the stud.

 

Hows the power curve with the spacer completely removed? Will I still lose low end? How are the high end gains? I've pretty much ruled out the euro-r due to price and the complicated install. If anything Ill go with the skunk 2 and 70MM TB.
So blake, What do you reccomend for my set-up, price aside. Now even tho I say price isnt a factor, if I can do a mod for basically free and have a good curve Im all about that. I dont want to spend $600+ for a few HP just yet. Im looking to keep my low end but also gain some top-end.

 

OK guys. Got the ECU installed. Seems to run a little rich. If I want to get it tuned, do I need to buy a s100 chip? If I by a AEM uego, could I tune it myself?