Hey guys, I have a 96 Integra RS (122WHP) that I have been tracking for a couple of years now and in 09 I am planning on TT'ing. With the mods I have done it looks like it may be hard to keep the car in a competitive class. Here is what I have now.

The car starts in TTF and I have up to 39 points to only be bumped one class.

+5 Tire: RA1's
+3 Weight Reduction (Alt method)
+13 Engine Drive-train (+1 Crank Pulley, +1 CAI, +5 Header CAT Exhaust, +3 FD, +3 LSD)
+11 Suspension (+3 Shocks, +2 Springs, +2 Roll bars, +4 F&R Camber Kits)

TOTAL 32 points

That gives me 7 points to play with.

My home track is VIR and looking at my vids from Fed (same set up but with no front camber kit only 1.25 deg neg on left side not good for VIR, Stock FD and open diff) I was running in the 2:24-2:26 lap times. Looking nationally TTE should be very close to H4 and they usually run times in the 2:18-2:19. Tuning, head work, and/or cams adds +5 or +6 points and I know that with headwork or cams you need to retune the car. All of that being said I know the Diff and FD should (hopefully) cut about 2-4 seconds but I guess what I'm looking for is what to do with my remaining 7 points?

Thanx for any input

 

So if you do the head/cams AND retune the car, does that put you over your 7 points? Do you already have a Hondata ECU?

Personally, I'd try cams and tuning only (without the head work) if that keeps you under your target for points. But just doing the FD and diff would be easier still. Do you know what the fast H4 tegs are running for a FD at that track? Might see if you can get in touch with Kevin Ruck or one of the guys from Team Honda Research (Jeremy Lucas, Brian Shanfled, Lee Neffineger, etc.) and see what they recommend.

From a simplicity standpoint, I'd want a tuned Hondata and the right FD/diff before I'd mess with engine internals. If you can add cams later and still stay in the same class (somehow) that's the order I'd use. None of the H4 guys will have much data on the cams (because they aren't allowed to use them...). So using the proven stuff first seems to me to be the smartest approach.

Reasonable minds may differ.

 

Reprogrammed ECU is +5 Points and Cams are +6. That was the thought I originally had but the +4 for the camber kit was added this year which kills me...

 

I'd do the ECU over the cams. Might not make as much total power, but it'll be a better car and probably more drivable.

 

FWIW...

my blue/red DA Integra that holds the H4 record with me driving it @ 2:19.7 and the ITA record with a 2:17.1 (set by previous owner Mark Carpenter) had a 4.7FD. IMO the LSD will help make the car easier to drive fast consistently. Easier to adjust the car with the throttle. Ultimate speed might not go up a HUGE amount, but I'm betting it will help make the laps more consistent.

 

Chris, you have a helical LSD or a clutch type?

 

use faster tires (Hankook, and Hoosier both have great contingency prize $$ in PT if you run their tires). Then with any remaining points take more weight off the car. lexan windows, lighter bumpers, ect...

If your taking points for the rear camber kit then remove it. It's not worth the points in a FWD car. Keep the front kit for sure, but no real need for the rear when you can spend the points for a lighter min. weight.

 

I didn't see that you took any points for tire width. I don't have the rules in front of me, but I thought the standard width for TTF was less than 225. If so, then I'd definitely run 225's and take the points.

As for what I'd do with 5-7 points and the setup you have at VIR ..... aero!

 

FD is a free mod, don't count the 3 points for that. So you should have 10 points to play with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by liquidoblivion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FD is a free mod, don't count the 3 points for that. So you should have 10 points to play with.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Now we're talkin'.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by liquidoblivion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FD is a free mod, don't count the 3 points for that. So you should have 10 points to play with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you sure about that?

33) Upgrade number of forward gears in transmission or altered gear ratios +3

 

Is weight that critical?? I mean if the car weighs with me in it (+200lb) 2500lbs with 122 HP that's 20.50lbs per hp, if we drop the weight to 2400lbs at 122 HP that's 19.68 lb per hp. Keeping the same weight 2500 and upping the hp to say 130 is 19.23 lb per hp. And weight add up quick to drop an additional weight to get the car to 2400 its a total of +8 points +5 more than I figures for weight. That's the same as a Hondata tune that could net me 5-10 hp (from what I'm told).

Tires I'm only running 205's right now but next year I'm thinking of the NT01 or R888's in a 225.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vbspec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you sure about that?

33) Upgrade number of forward gears in transmission or altered gear ratios +3</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd ask for clarification on that from the National Director. The context and plural word "ratios" make it seem (to me) like its talking about individual gear ratios and not final drive. Additionally, the other rules in the engine/drivetrain section usually use the phrase "non-OEM" in describing modifications that are assessed points. The 4.7 is an OEM FD ratio.

Also, rule 33 is highlighted in red on the NASA site, indicating to me that it may be a new rule for '08. Often times newer rules are added for one meaning and inadvertently cause another. Asking about the "intent" of the rule and also for clarification about whether it covers FD might be very helpful to the oft-over-worked rules folks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vbspec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Are you sure about that?

33) Upgrade number of forward gears in transmission or altered gear ratios +3
</TD></TR></TABLE>

keep reading guys, its number 11 under no points mods

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd ask for clarification on that from the National Director. The context and plural word "ratios" make it seem (to me) like its talking about individual gear ratios and not final drive. Additionally, the other rules in the engine/drivetrain section usually use the phrase "non-OEM" in describing modifications that are assessed points. The 4.7 is an OEM FD ratio.

Also, rule 33 is highlighted in red on the NASA site, indicating to me that it may be a new rule for '08. Often times newer rules are added for one meaning and inadvertently cause another. Asking about the "intent" of the rule and also for clarification about whether it covers FD might be very helpful to the oft-over-worked rules folks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OEM in TT counts as parts that came with the car. There may be a 4.7 OEM FD, but no DC Integra RS that i know of came with a 4.7FD so that would be considered non-OEM for the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">use faster tires (Hankook, and Hoosier both have great contingency prize $$ in PT if you run their tires). Then with any remaining points take more weight off the car. lexan windows, lighter bumpers, ect...

If your taking points for the rear camber kit then remove it. It's not worth the points in a FWD car. Keep the front kit for sure, but no real need for the rear when you can spend the points for a lighter min. weight.</TD></TR></TABLE>


+1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by liquidoblivion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

keep reading guys, its number 11 under no points mods</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's awsome I guess I just missed the last page!!!!

And member PM'd me and looking back at this:

The following tire sizes will be used as the base tire size for each Base Class for all vehicles regardless of their OEM tire
size(s). All vehicles in a given base class may use this tire size (or smaller) without a points assessment:
TTA: 295 mm, TTB: 265mm, TTC: 255mm, TTD: 245mm, TTE: 235mm, TTF: 215mm, TTG: 195mm, TTH: 175mm
Increased tire width beyond that listed above (using the largest increase of front or rear if using split sizes) will be
assessed as follows:
Equal to or greater than: 10mm +1, 20mm +4, 30mm +7, 40mm +10, 50mm +13, 60mm +16, 70mm +19,
80mm +22, 90mm +25, 100mm +28, 110mm +31, 120mm +34, etc.
Tire width is determined by the number printed on the tire sidewall by the manufacturer. If a tire does not have a
manufacturer’s printed number on the sidewall, then actual tread width measurement will be used. Drivers choosing to
use tires narrower than the size listed for their base class may get credited back points by reversing the assessments
listed above using the smaller decrease of front or rear for cars using split sizes (i.e. -1 for 10mm smaller, -4 for 20mm
smaller, -7 for 30mm smaller, etc.) UTQG treadwear ratings are as of the date of the current version of the PT rules.
Any new tire or tire with a changed UTQG treadwear rating must be evaluated by the National TT Director before the
rating will be legal for use in NASA PT classing. All DOT-approved tires must be available for purchase by the
general public through Federal or state licensed tire dealers.

I have back the +3 for the FD and +1 it appears for running a 205 when my base class TTF's tire is a 215. Make a grand total of 11 points to play with!!!! That's awsome. So it looks like I need to drop the weight, have my 140k mile head refreshed (no points) and tune it.

Thanx again to every one for their input!!!!