I got a real pain in the *** problem which I hate to have to consult to the internet for but here it goes. As the topic states I have coolant mixing or leaking into my oil. I all ready know that this is usually a headgasket issue but was wondering how likely it was that coolant could or may be seeping into my Intake runner on cylinder #4 where the water bypass hose connects to the coolant passage on the Intake.

I have an newly built LS-Vtec with a B16 head and an OBD1 P30 intake. I've already replaced one headgasket and am currently using a Cometic MLS LS-Vtec gasket. I've torqued the head accordingly @72ftlbs per head stud (Golden Eagle) using ARP moly lube (which believe it or not Golden Eagle recommended when I called to get specs on the installation of the studs).

Back to the problem at hand, has anyone here experienced problems with there intake gaskets causing leaks?



Modified by DC_Legacy at 1:53 AM 4/17/2008

 

I have heard of this happening, but I haven't seen it myself. I would bet that 99.99% of the time it's a head gasket or cracked block/head issue and not a leaking manifold or gasket. I know it's a bitch to change the manifold gasket in the car, but I would try that since it would be a lot cheaper than throwing down for a head gasket replacement.
A trick to finding a blown/partially blown headgasket is to go to a shop and use the 4 gas analyzer and open your radiator cap and start your car. then use the 'sniffer' to test the coolant for HC's (Hydrocarbons). DON'T touch the coolant though!!! It can screw up the 4 gas machine. It's worked for me many times!

I'm sure you have a buddy who works in a shop or if not I doubt a shop would charge you to do this simple test. I wouldn't.
Good luck man, post up what you find!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ahknodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard of this happening, but I haven't seen it myself. I would bet that 99.99% of the time it's a head gasket or cracked block/head issue and not a leaking manifold or gasket. I know it's a bitch to change the manifold gasket in the car, but I would try that since it would be a lot cheaper than throwing down for a head gasket replacement.
A trick to finding a blown/partially blown headgasket is to go to a shop and use the 4 gas analyzer and open your radiator cap and start your car. then use the 'sniffer' to test the coolant for HC's (Hydrocarbons). DON'T touch the coolant though!!! It can screw up the 4 gas machine. It's worked for me many times!

I'm sure you have a buddy who works in a shop or if not I doubt a shop would charge you to do this simple test. I wouldn't.
Good luck man, post up what you find!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks!, Yeah my machinist who did alot of my block and piston preparation said to use a radiator pressurizer to identify where the leak is comming from (either the head
or the block). I doubt its from the HG, but I do know that the deck was surfaced before I bought the block.

 

Today I rented a radiator pump to prime the cooling system so i could trouble shoot the leak. I pulled off the valve cover to look for any seepage while it was primed at 20psi, but didn't see any signs there. I let the system remain primed for about 5 min then checked the oil plug for any leaks from the block but nothing in my oil pan either. I can only guess that its leaking into a combustion chamber and then making its way past the piston rings as the motors running. The contamination wasnt that much when i discovered the problem, about a 1/4th -1/3qt of coolant to 4qts of oil Id say.

Any thoughts?

 

OK, Im getting some where now. I retightened all the coolant fittings then primed the system to 18psi and waited about 20min, looked under the valve cover, nothing. Removed the oil plug and there it was. So i guess its either a cracked block or badly surfaced deck.

Damn now i gotta pull the whole thing out again.

 

Sucky

but if you have coolant in your oil at all a HG or a cracked head/block are the two most common reasons. Sorry man, but you're probably right about the block not being flat. Since you've got an MLS in there then it'll be easy to check the deck. Once you have the head off take a machinist ruler (precise metal ruler) and lay it across the deck in many different ways and use a set of feeler gauges to see if there is any warpage of the deck surface. You shouldn't be able to get even the smallest feeler gauge in there. It should be totally flat. Check it diagonally, across the sides, down the middle, and any other way that blows your skirt up. If you get anything under the ruler then you've got a block that needs to be decked. If you don't find anything there then do the same to the head.

One question i have is did you notice any white smoke when you were driving? I would guess that the coolant is getting in your cylinder and then leaking past the rings like you said, but if it is in your cylinders then you should have seen smoke. It would leak past the rings while the car sat shut off. The same thing happened to me after my nitrous blew my HG! So now I use an MLS from a Y8 Civic. If both surfaces are flat then you may have a crack somewhere and in that case I'd have a machine shop check it out. Post up what you find out!!!

Good luck man.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ahknodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sucky

but if you have coolant in your oil at all a HG or a cracked head/block are the two most common reasons. Sorry man, but you're probably right about the block not being flat. Since you've got an MLS in there then it'll be easy to check the deck. Once you have the head off take a machinist ruler (precise metal ruler) and lay it across the deck in many different ways and use a set of feeler gauges to see if there is any warpage of the deck surface. You shouldn't be able to get even the smallest feeler gauge in there. It should be totally flat. Check it diagonally, across the sides, down the middle, and any other way that blows your skirt up. If you get anything under the ruler then you've got a block that needs to be decked. If you don't find anything there then do the same to the head.

One question i have is did you notice any white smoke when you were driving? I would guess that the coolant is getting in your cylinder and then leaking past the rings like you said, but if it is in your cylinders then you should have seen smoke. It would leak past the rings while the car sat shut off. The same thing happened to me after my nitrous blew my HG! So now I use an MLS from a Y8 Civic. If both surfaces are flat then you may have a crack somewhere and in that case I'd have a machine shop check it out. Post up what you find out!!!

Good luck man. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well yeah actually it did smoke from the head/valve cover. I never drove it since I never got the axels installed. I cranked it up to let the motor run after fixing another problem with an oil leak, I gave it a couple of quick short revs after warming up and thats when it started smoking so then I knew it wasnt good.

I gotta another LS block which needs to rebored that I <U>KNOW</U> doesnt leak so im debating on just buying some nippon/ebay PR3's + rings and just using that block instead of resurfacing my current block which was surfaced down to a .018-.019 piston to deck clearance. Decisions..Decisions

Your probably right, its most likely the block/head surface, but I dont want to take any chances with fixing a possible problem, get it reinstalled and then have the same **** happen over again $300-$500 later with nearly a years downtime on my daily driver.

I should have just bought a GSR swap, added some fresh pistons,bearings, and valves and called it complete.

 

That makes sense. If it was smoking and it wasn't even driven then I would guess that's the problem (head/deck surface). And if you have a spare block and the money to get it together the right way, then that's what I would do. That way you have your car back and it's good to go.
Sorry man, but that happens sometimes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ahknodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That makes sense. If it was smoking and it wasn't even driven then I would guess that's the problem (head/deck surface). And if you have a spare block and the money to get it together the right way, then that's what I would do. That way you have your car back and it's good to go.
Sorry man, but that happens sometimes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah in hine sight I will never purchase a used engine/parts over the internet unless its from a reputable company again. I actually bought that block from HT member <U>JDMisGOOD</U> and have had nothing but problems with it since it was started.

I mentioned having an oil leak before the cooling problem, well the bspt threaded oil port where the oil pressure sensor is located may have been damaged too. It wasnt even visble at first but when I got the motor installed in the car and started it up I lost nearly 3qts of oil which was all over the back of my block and down my driveway shortly after starting it up. I removed the LS Vtec T fitting and cheacked all of the teflon tape for signs of the origin of the leak but nothing, so I swabbed the port with alchol to clean it before reinstalling the fitting when a portion of the blocked just chipped right off in my hand. Needless to say I was pissed, but I wasnt so sure exactly what kind of legal action could be taken since I sent the money to the sellers roomates account instead of the actual name of the seller.

I only spent $100 on the block, but the time that its taken to get this thing together is whats really put me back. Anyway, I'll postup what I find when I get the thing out.

 

Man, that really sucks. I hate getting bad parts especially from people on here.
Oh well, just pull that thing and have a look. Hopefully you find something and know for sure what happened. Did you have the block decked before you put it in?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ahknodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man, that really sucks. I hate getting bad parts especially from people on here.
Oh well, just pull that thing and have a look. Hopefully you find something and know for sure what happened. Did you have the block decked before you put it in?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No actually when I recieved the block I took it to my machinist to have it overbored from 81mm to 81.25mm for some oversized P30's that I bought. My machinist looked at it and asked if it had been decked, so then I messaged JDMisGood and he mentioned then that it had been surfaced. The detail of it being surfaced was never mentioned in the ad, but I did ask about the lowdown on the block before I bought it and he stated that it just needed a good hone and it would be good to go.

You get what you pay for. Ya know?

 

So you had the block overbored, but it didn't get decked afterward???? that's crazy man, I always have mine decked after getting it bored out. I'm surprised your machinist didn't suggest doing that. I'll bet that's the problem there man. Sucky, but I'm sure that's it. Pull the head and check the deck, it's probably not flat.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ahknodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you had the block overbored, but it didn't get decked afterward???? that's crazy man, I always have mine decked after getting it bored out. I'm surprised your machinist didn't suggest doing that. I'll bet that's the problem there man. Sucky, but I'm sure that's it. Pull the head and check the deck, it's probably not flat. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Na he didn't suggest doing it because it didn't have any scratches or marks on it, but I don't know if he checked to see if it was square or not. I have a suspiction its the head because I didn't have any help placing it on the block when I assembled it, and I might have accidently scratched the surface while centering it on the alignment dowels

 

shitty. Well you may be right. I guess we'll find out when you get the thing apart. After doing any block work (besides just ball honing) I would recommend getting it decked. I like to be better safe than sorry. Post up what you find when is opened up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ahknodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">shitty. Well you may be right. I guess we'll find out when you get the thing apart. After doing any block work (besides just ball honing) I would recommend getting it decked. I like to be better safe than sorry. Post up what you find when is opened up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im pulling the head off tommorow to look it over, I want to see if I can get it leak tested so i can rule out if its leaking through a cooling passages or just from the surface. 9/10 its probably the surface. I'll keep ya posted.

 

Sounds good man. Let's hope it's just the surface.
Laterz