Ok, so i have just started auto-xing and have been bitten big with the bug to modify further. my next step is to build a head, but i am not sure what type of cam is good for the short bursts of an auto-x course. i have at both the bisimoto stage 2 regrind for d16z6 and the crower stage 3 for d16z6, but im not sure if they would be good or if i should step down a stage. here are the specs on both cams:

Crower:
Stage 3 - Race cams requires cylinder head modifications and ECU tuning.
Requires 84166 kit.
1000-8000+ rpm.
Advertised Duration Duration @ .050" Gross Lift w/1.6 int /1.8 ext
329 / 317 239 / 226 442 / 468


Bisimoto:
Duration Lift
Level 2, regrind: $349; (246/247) 0.430/0.440

let me know what you think. i am new to this whole motor building thing. jsut for some info i will be adding this cam to an exospeed stage 3 prepped head and eventually an exospeed stage 3 prepped block with either 11:1 or 11.5:1 pitons.

 

can anyone help me or does it really not matter what cam you go with?

 

SAVE MONEY AND DO MORE EVENTS.
then, get a rulebook and find out what you can do legally to stay in a class you can affoard to run in.
your gonna need a shitton more than just motor to be fast.

 

i know, but i am in SM2 so anything goes pretty much.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1995civicEJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know, but i am in SM2 so anything goes pretty much.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You may want to consider what other cars and their modifications you are up against. SM2 is a pretty wild class.

Seat time is the best way to improve your times in an auto-x.

besides You may be better of with some REALLY sticky wide tires.

What did you do to your car that puts you in SM2?



Modified by Crazydave at 11:10 AM 4/10/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazydave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You may want to consider what other cars and their modifications you are up against. SM2 is a pretty wild class.

Seat time is the best way to improve your times in an auto-x.

besides You may be better of with some REALLY sticky wide tires.

What did you do to your car that puts you in SM2?

Modified by Crazydave at 11:10 AM 4/10/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

well for my first event last week, i did very well, here is my thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2264438 it explains my results or here is the link to my local scca http://trscca.org/2008results.html my name is scott malloy incase you look for my standings.

i am going to run 949 racing 15X9" rims as soon as i get my j's racing fender flares so im sure 9" of tire will help me and yeah i know seat time is important, cuz i only got better as the day went on.

the mods to the car are motor swap, cf hood, gutted, etc that put me in sm2, i actually hold my own though for only having done one event.

 

I'll echo what Lo-buck EF said.

Picking cams for a NA civic in SM2 is sort of a 'rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic' deal. Whichever cam you pick, you are going to be at a huge power disadvantage to any seriously prepped SM2 car.
Assuming you want to be really competitive in your class, your money is better spent on seat time, and then picking a class where you can afford to prep your car to the limits of the rules (and one where your car has a chance in the first place).

Most of us who have been doing this for a while are very familiar with your dilemma. When you are starting out, you really want to spend money on the car to make you faster. But you'll go a whole lot faster by working on the the driver first, then the car.


Modified by bender at 11:53 AM 4/10/2008

 

Ben, why do you have to fill this guys head with non-sense? sheesh...

 

yeah, i wish i could start over from stock, but i am too deep into it now to go back. also, i just read the SM part of the rule book and it says only 2 seater sports cars run in SM2. does it count if you have gutted your car as being a 2 seater sportscar?

 

Yeah, I have a bad habit of spoiling everybody's car-modding fun.

 

im also not building this car specifically for Auto-x, it is my daily and i jsut go out to better myself. i amnot really worried about competing with everyone else right now. it is nice if i do well, but my point is not to go out and win the poits race. it is jsut to go out and have fun. i will build an all out auto-x car oneday though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1995civicEJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, i wish i could start over from stock, but i am too deep into it now to go back. also, i just read the SM part of the rule book and it says only 2 seater sports cars run in SM2. does it count if you have gutted your car as being a 2 seater sportscar?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It only matters how many seats the car started out with. Gutted 4-seater = SM. Gutted 2-seater = SM2.

 

oh ok. see i was confused earlier. the car i really wanna build for auto-x is a crx and start with a stock one and build the **** out of the suspension and everything. but i dont have the garage space for a project of that caliber or really the money yet.

 

Few high performance cams are designed with a priority on low-end torque over top end power. Stock cams are usually pretty good in the torque area. A little more lift doesn't hurt. But I'm no fan of the suffering in drivability most race/stage-III type cams take as a trade off for ultimate hp.

We tested Brian Crower stage-II and stage-III cams back to back on my B20 a couple of years ago. Both cams were tested and tuned with a Hondata S300 on Shawn Church's dyno. The stage-IIIs did make more power, but it was at the expense of a tolerable idle and a little bottom end.

The BC stage-IIs were fantastic and would still be in the car today if they were legal in H2. If I ever get another non-VTEC B-series installing those stage-IIs will be the first thing I do. Other than the cost of the cams (and likely some gain in emissions output), there is literally no downside. They are REALLY good cams.

 

I have no input other than if the car you are runing is the 95 Civic DX you list in your sig your in SM not SM2....

 

yeah we discovered that above, thanks though.

 

Not to talk ****... but this is the reality of the results that I looked at.

SM Top Time 71.460
SM2 Top Time 70.638
Your top time 80.155

A cam is not going to make up a 10 second difference.

Once you can narrow the time down to a 2 second difference from the top runners, then and only then will modifications start helping you. furhter narrow the gap.

Gutted civics with swaps are fun! believe me I know.
But they are not competative in the classes that allow that.

Honestly your money will be much better spent on track time and tires more than anything else in auto-x. I know this because I have been there.
I was a broke auto-xer too. Go to as many events as you can afford, and if they offer practice days where you can get 8+ laps DO THOSE BY ALL MEANS. Do as many fun runs as you can.

Don't spend money on modifying the car... this is expensive, and will likely reduce the reliabilty / smogability of your car.

If you are just out there to have fun... then find some similar cars.. or cars that are running the same times as you.... and try to beat them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazydave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not to talk ****... but this is the reality of the results that I looked at.

SM Top Time 71.460
SM2 Top Time 70.638
Your top time 80.155

A cam is not going to make up a 10 second difference.

Once you can narrow the time down to a 2 second difference from the top runners, then and only then will modifications start helping you. furhter narrow the gap.

Gutted civics with swaps are fun! believe me I know.
But they are not competative in the classes that allow that.

Honestly your money will be much better spent on track time and tires more than anything else in auto-x. I know this because I have been there.
I was a broke auto-xer too. Go to as many events as you can afford, and if they offer practice days where you can get 8+ laps DO THOSE BY ALL MEANS. Do as many fun runs as you can.

Don't spend money on modifying the car... this is expensive, and will likely reduce the reliabilty / smogability of your car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I think the OP needs to work on the driver not the motor.
Thats what I've been doing, In my last event I was 1 second faster than the SM2 class.

 

dont waste u times with the cams. if your "swapped" with a z6 ur way 2 under powered to even think about staying N/A in the D get a high reving B with LSD

I think you should save your money and down grade

or

get small turbo (like i had, 10psi 3.7k rpm)/supercharger and build the engine to extremes.

But always remember that you dont need a "fast engine" in order to go fast at an auto-x put the mods into grippy tires and light wheels along with ncie brakes and suspension. Honda power to weight FTW

 

Honeslty ... it would be cheaper and easier for you to buy a 88-91 Si and run it in STS.

Did you keep the stock DX Tranny... or did you upgrade to the si tranny.

I didn't read you sig... I didn't know that you only have d16z6 in a 5g coupe.

Not to burst your bubble.. but it's gonna be REALLY hard to make that car competative. You can have a **** load of fun with it. It will run forever, and you can make it handle decently enough. And as long you don't spend a bunch on money of mods... it will cost you nothing more than oil, gas and tires.

 

Dang! 76 registered drivers. It looks like you get 4-5 runs.

I just went to my first SCCA autox event. It's was raining all morning and slowed to a drizzle in the afternoon but we still had 172 drivers and the organizers were scrambling since so many people were a no show. I can't imagine what it's gonna be like when it's nice and a points event!

Given that this is your first event, you can probably improve your time significantly by just improving your driving. Here's a good write up on driver effectiveness

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets3.html

It's just an example but it's the reason why people always say to fix the loose nut behind the wheel

 

I know that i need a lot of seat time, and practice. I dotn have a z6 i have a JDM d15b vtec, and the car is gunna receive a roll cage, much more suspension and brake stuff, and eventually it will probably be my dedicated track car, but for now it is my daily. i know a cam isnt gunna ake up a 10 second gap, i am jsut trying to gether opinions on what type of cam would be good for auto-x use, so can i please get some feedback on that, no im not swapping the motor and no im not boosting it or adding FI.

 

Funny dilema you are in. I was in the same dilema where I had a cammed car and actually pulled the cam out to bump myself back into a more competetive class. I started out with a cammed NX2000 in the SM class the first year and learned my lesson. Next year I pulled the cams to put me into STS. Ran that way for two years until I figured that no matter how well I drove the NX I could not compete against the civics in STS. (I learned this by actually driving a fully prepped civic STS and finding out how much a factor the car actually was.) Now I am in the midst of building a civic.

Long story short. People here are trying to tell you that no cam can help you now. It's best to cut your losses while you can and stop throwing your money away towards a 'lost cause'. Unless you are just doing it for fun and you're having fun.

Either path you take good luck. I personally think you'd have more fun in a more competetive class.

cheers!

Also:
(It's better to be a big fish in a big pond then to be the big fish in the little pond.)

 

do you really think putting a b series in my car owuld make that much of a difference? i mean , b16's dont make much more whp and tq than i am in stock form, and they weigh 100 pounds more.

 

also, do turbo d's do well in auto-x? i mean there were a lot of turbo cars out there, but they were either sr20 240's or WRX's.